Molly Ruland:
And we can jump right in. Hey, we’re coming in hot with another episode of Camp Content. We are hanging out with my buddy Jason Cercone today. He has been doing this stuff for a very long time, social media marketing since 2009, which is pretty much when the whole game started in the first place. Started podcasting in 2015, turned it into a business in 2019. What we’re excited about today is Jason and us have very similar mindset and theory schools of thought on podcasting as a business development tool, except Jason works with people who are smaller businesses or solopreneurs coaches, things like that, to help them create a personal branded podcast that drives awareness of them and also ideally generates revenue. So excited to hang out with Jason today. So thank you for coming on the show. We’re excited to see you. How are you doing?
Jason Cercone:
Doing well, Molly. Thanks a lot for having me. I’ve been looking forward to this conversation. I know we’re going to have a ton of fun today.
Molly Ruland:
Exactly. Well, we’ve hung out a few times now, so it’s like we’re in there, man. I was like, oh, it’s my buddy Jason, he’s cool. That’ll be a fun interview for sure. Thanks for coming on the show. We definitely appreciate it. So tell us a little bit about solo podcasting simplified. Let’s get into it.
Jason Cercone:
Yeah. As you and I sit and chat today, that podcast has just gone live. The first five episodes went live to the world as of last week and then I’ll be rolling out three a week going forward. Really, the objective that I’m trying to meet is helping coaches and consultants build strong solo podcasting content so they can make a strong connection with their audience and ultimately establish themselves as the main go to thought leader in their niche. I love podcast guesting, I love making guest appearances, I love having conversations on my podcast. But at the same time, the Solo initiative there’s so much value in it that I feel that small business owners can’t overlook this type of content creation because it brings such value to not just the podcast medium, but allows you to create all this great content that you can share on other outlets like Facebook Reels and Instagram, reels and Shorts, TikToks, you name it. Whatever your poison may be, you can utilize this content in so many ways. And when it’s just you as the focal point, as the thought leader, it allows you to establish trust with your listener and build a really intimate connection. So that’s really where I’ve been putting my efforts lately and looking to keep running at full speed as things come together.
Molly Ruland:
Yeah, that’s exactly right, because I’ve been talking with a lot of people about podcast booking, right. And it’s like two sides of the same sword, right? Like it’s really important to go do that and go get on other people’s podcasts. But man, you really can control the narrative, the design, the aesthetic, the length, the content, everything when it’s your own podcast. So it’s definitely a heavier lift. How do you handle those kinds of objections? Because I know a lot of people are like, oh, jeez, a podcast, that sounds like a lot of work. How do I do that? I don’t have the bandwidth. I’m barely making it now. Right. I would imagine you hear this. So how do you manage those?
Jason Cercone:
You’re right, that’s typically the objection, but I think that’s a lot of the objection. With any type of podcast creation, it’s got to be one of those initiatives that you really commit yourself to. And having those real conversations with yourself at the very beginning can make all the difference. Because if you don’t set realistic expectations for what you want to accomplish and how you’re going to actually build this content, you’re going to unravel and things will go south very quickly. And numbers don’t lie. We’ve seen this in the podcast space so many times. Podcasters are so excited to start a podcast because it seems like it’s the sexy thing to do and everybody’s starting a podcast. And honestly, if I could bottle that energy and sell it, Molly, you and I could just retire. I’d share the funds because we’d be loaded. Because so many people come into this with that thought process and it’s through the roof. The excitement level is just it’s almost impossible to gauge. But then once the work begins, that’s when things start to change. And all of a sudden, because there’s no set plan of action in place and a true understanding of what we want to achieve by creating this podcast content, it starts to become more of a chore and it starts getting pushed further and further down the priority list to where eventually it’s not even on the radar anymore. That’s something that I want to help coaches and consultants understand in the very beginning. Listen, podcasting isn’t easy. I don’t know what Guru you discovered that said it was because the people that I talked to, no one’s singing that tune. We need to understand what you want to accomplish, how you want to get there, the type of content you want to produce, is it in your zone of genius so you remain passionate about it. Would you be able to talk about it if no one was listening? Because in the beginning, that’s reality, because you have to build your audience first. These are all questions we need to answer once we have positive answers and affirmations in those areas, okay, let’s figure out how we’re going to build this show and get you off the ground and push you forward with everything that you’re doing. So in the very beginning, it’s incredibly important to address those items and to establish a winning mindset so the commitment remains strong and you can grow your show over time. Molly, you know you’re an established, seasoned podcaster you understand in the beginning, there’s growing pains and you have to get good at what you’re doing. And the more you put emphasis on it, the better you get and everything falls into place.
Molly Ruland:
And on that note, I’d like to shout out our four listeners who remain solid every week, you know what I mean? And we have a huge social media following, right? I mean, I’m being a little sarcastic, but even with the following and even with consistent episodes and even with great SEO, it still takes time. And I think a lot of times it’s right. The shiny thing. Like everybody’s on Threads this week, I’m like, dude, you don’t even have your newsletter done. Like, focus on one thing, right? Focus on but I think what happens is that we get overwhelmed with things, right? And we think, okay, well, what kind of podcast? Well, what are popular or what podcasts do I like? And then who do I want to interview? Well, I think this person is popular on LinkedIn, so you can come up with like, how do I want the show to look? But so many people skip, but what is the result? What is the goal? Right? Because you can figure out how you want it to look and all that, but if you want the goal to be to get more email sign ups or discovery calls, then the aesthetic you just designed that you like is not actually going to get you there. And so, yeah, really dialing in on what the goal is. It’s a year from now, you’re blowing up the podcast is a huge success. What does that mean? Does that mean you’re speaking on more stages? Does that mean you’re booking more clients? What does it look like? Because those are very different avenues to go down. Those are totally different trajectories, right? Like a soccer field and a football field look the same, but it’s not the same game. So I think getting really clear on that goal first and then it makes some of the other stuff a little easier to manage.
Jason Cercone:
Oh, absolutely. I think it’s being intentional with everything you’re doing. It’s funny. I wanted to mention you brought up Threads, and that being the flavor of the week as we sit and talk. Did you find it funny that within the first few days there were already people on there positioning themselves as experts and how you could be successful with Threads in like 30 days? And I’m like, this platform is four days old. You don’t even have that window of experience yet. How are you going to sell that? Besides, it’s the world we live in. But please don’t fall for that, listeners. Don’t the four people that are listening, don’t be falling into that type of trap.
Molly Ruland:
You’ve been warned.
Jason Cercone:
Exactly. But you have to be very intentional with what you’re building, with your content and understand what the long term objective is, because many people don’t set that type of long term goal. This is what my podcast is going to do for me. Type of goal or type of we’ll call that the destination that the journey gets you to. If you don’t do that, what are you doing? Because you won’t stay committed when things start to go badly or if things start off slowly. Because again, we live in this world where people are positioning themselves to get results in 30 days and this is how you do things overnight. And no, that’s not what you want to build here. Because I go back to what I said about the journey. You learn so much in that window of time and that can be applied to other aspects of your brand building or other aspects of your life. You don’t want to rob yourself of that experience. So over time, as you get better at podcasting, you’re building towards that long term goal, but you’re also picking up valuable experience that can be applied to so much more. So you don’t want to try to shortcut your way to the end here because A, you won’t get there, you’ll be incredibly disappointed and B, you rob yourself of very valuable skills that can be used in multiple facets of life.
Matt Billman:
And to kind of build off that. And then you also talked about the value and the growing pains, I mean, the value side. It looks like literally your first episode was the undeniable benefit to solo podcasting. So we won’t have you talk about that because we just tell the four people to go listen to that give.
Jason Cercone:
You four more listeners.
Matt Billman:
What are some of the kinds of the growing pains that you’ve noticed doing the solo thing that may deter people? Like I said, building off what you just said makes them be like them.
Jason Cercone:
Oh, I can’t do this.
Matt Billman:
It’s going to be a tough hurdle to get over top of, but that may seem hard at the time that you’ve kind of gone through, but then now you’re just like, oh, that was.
Jason Cercone:
Very easy to get through. Here we are. Yeah. When it comes to solo podcasting, I mean, I leaned into this because I enjoy having the conversations, but I also enjoy creating that type of content to where I am having that more intimate one on one conversation with the person that’s watching or listening. When you have a guest, you’re talking to the people in the room. Usually it’s not so much the audience. I like to this point we’ve already done a little bit of shout out to our audience members and our listeners, so that’s cool. But in most cases, the general premise is that you are talking to the other person on the other side of the microphone. But with solo podcasting, you are making that intimate connection. But some people don’t feel comfortable with that. They don’t feel like they sound natural, they don’t feel like they are saying something that anybody’s going to give a damn about. They create all these self limiting beliefs that prevent them from even trying this form of content. And in no way, shape or form do I downplay the value of guest based conversation and guest based content on a podcast. But at the same time, it’s all about positioning. If you want to gain notoriety in your niche, maybe you do start reaching out to other thought leaders who you can have compelling conversations with and you use that content to bolster your own presence and visibility. But if you want to hit the ground running as the person, as the resource that people want to turn to, if you’re the only voice in the room and people are digging what you have to say, they’re picking. Up what you’re putting down. You are that person they are going to continue to turn to and then start telling others to do the same. There’s a lot of power and value in doing that and you have to overcome those initial obstacles of feeling like no one wants to hear what you have to say or you won’t sound natural. And in those initial episodes of the show, I laid out how you do overcome those obstacles because to me, it starts with building that foundation. If you understand those fundamental skills, you can start producing content in this capacity and it’s going to put you in a good position as your show continues to grow. So if you can get past those obstacles as early as possible and just basically get over and just say, you know what, screw it. I am the person that people want to hear from. I am the person that has a solution that the right people are going to resonate with. I’m going to talk to them and I’m going to make this happen. You’re going to be in a big position to go far.
Molly Ruland:
Well, and I think it really touches on the idea of like, less is more and there’s a lot of value in a small audience, right? And so how many people do you need to get in front of? If we got 100 new clients tomorrow, we’d be in trouble. That would not be good for our business at all. So I don’t want to go viral. I don’t want a million people listening to my solo podcast tomorrow because it could be very bad for a number of reasons. Honestly, the one thing that I love about solo podcasting is I feel like it’s a little bit more manageable too, right? If you’re doing an interview podcast, you’re a little bit more at the mercy of other people where if you’re doing a solo podcast, you could take an hour once a month and record 410 minute episodes that you’ve thought out and planned out and be done with it. Or you could do eight of them, you could do 15 depending on how self sabotaging you are, right? No matter. That’s not the right word. But depending on how hard you want to make your life, you could have three, four months of content in the bag. And the data shows because we love data, we love the Edison Report, we love looking at the share of ear, and the data shows that the completion rates are significantly higher on shorter podcasts. And so I think even though a solo podcast might sound a little bit intimidating, if you’re like, man, I only got to do like seven, eight minutes a week, right? 15 minutes. Then you’re like, well, wait a minute. If that’s not so hard at all, it actually feels a lot more manageable, especially if you can bash that content in advance.
Jason Cercone:
Oh, 1000%. Here’s how I’m structuring my show. And to put this into perspective, for a podcaster that’s bringing a guest on and Molly, Matt, you guys can attest to this like, you know, the amount of work that goes into preparing for a guest. The way that I’m structuring the format of solo podcasting, simplified, is I’m going to do two episodes a week that are about 15 to 20 minutes, and then I’m going to do about five to ten minutes, probably closer to five minutes. It’s going to be a podcast therapy session, and it’s going to cover specific aspects in a very short, easy to consume amount of time. The three episodes, when it comes to the time, come out to about one episode of a guest based podcast. And the amount of work that I had to do to put that content together is significantly less, because I didn’t have to find a guest and then reach out to them to see if they’d like to be on my show, and then schedule them, and then, like you said, Molly, you were at the mercy of that person. Schedule, and then they may reschedule. I’ve experienced it. Exactly. They don’t show. There’s so much that can happen, and then after it’s all done, they may not even share the content.
Molly Ruland:
You want to have a microphone?
Jason Cercone:
Okay. There’s a number of guys who show up in rush hour traffic. There are things that will happen when you’re welcoming other people. Is there value to be gained? Yes. But at the same time, there’s a lot that can go wrong and you cost yourself a ton of time, whereas going the solo route, it’s on you. And you can create a lot of content in that same amount of time that you would spend preparing to then share the stage and take the spotlight off of you for the most part. It makes so much more sense. Again, if it’s positioning, and if you’re looking at positioning and you want to be the thought leader, solo podcasting is the only way to fly. And you just take so much stress out of your life in doing so.
Molly Ruland:
And I think like sales and running a business, is a lot like tending to a garden. It’s not even just planting stuff. Sometimes you gotta tend to the soil and reinvigorate it and re nourish it and get it back to square. Maybe you’ve grown some too much stuff. Some of it is actually tilling the garden and planting the seeds. Then once the seeds are planted, you still have to water them and wait for them to grow. And I think a lot of times the sales cycle on organic companies generates lead sources. Like if you’re paying for leads, that’s one thing. But the people that come to you, that’s a long game, right? They’re going to hear you on a podcast, they’re going to hear your podcast, they’re going to see you on LinkedIn, someone’s going to mention your name and then six months later when they’re ready, that’s when they’re going to hire you. And so you have to be consistent because your six clients that you get from that six months of content probably won’t show up for a year or six months, right? You’re just building that foundation for when they’re ready. You are right there with them. And so a solo podcast feels like a great way to get that done in small short bites but popping up consistently. Do you encourage your clients? What kind of auxiliary content, supporting content do they make from that podcast? I’m sure you have some good advice there.
Jason Cercone:
Yeah, I look at really what you want to accomplish because some people just don’t want to be on every platform. And I recommend that, especially if you’re starting out fresh, find the platform where you have the most fun creating content because you want to stay engaged in the process. But you also have to make sure that your target audience is going to be in that space as well. Because if your target audience is hanging out on LinkedIn but you’re building TikToks and not making any difference or any headway, you’re just wasting your time. So you have to find the best way to utilize this content. But what’s beautiful about the podcast content in this world we live in today, we have the capability of producing this with the video component. So when you create the short form content that’s going to accompany the audio when it goes live and even way before like start sharing the content way before it goes live, you’re now creating content and you have this content in your hands, in your grasp that you can then use on that platform that you want to make a difference on. So if it’s on LinkedIn, maybe it’s not just video, but maybe you take the transcription and pull out a few posts. Maybe a video accompanies it, but then you’re on YouTube or Instagram. Maybe that reel is going to give people insight into what your podcast is all about and move them closer to that buying decision without them even listening to your podcast. Because sometimes people aren’t podcast listeners. They may love what you have to say, but because they don’t listen to podcasts, they’re not going to tune into your show. But the content is still valuable enough that if you put it in front of them in various capacities, it’s going to make an impact and hopefully move them closer to that buying decision. So you have to be intentional about where you exist and not overwhelm yourself and worry about FOMO. I got to almost over produce content thinking I have to be on every platform under the sun. You’re going to kill yourself doing that. You talk about leading the burnout and pod fade that will get you there quickly. You don’t want that to happen.
Matt Billman:
Yeah, because I guess that’s one of the big issues when people start right, it’s, oh, I got to get all this social content out. It’s like, do you do it right away and what are the smart places to put it out on and how.
Molly Ruland:
Do we correctly create it so it’s.
Matt Billman:
Hitting the right target audiences, not just for a bunch of crap and it’s just kind of everywhere and not good, right?
Jason Cercone:
Exactly. Yeah. You have to be again, you look at where you’re having the most success leading up to having this podcast content, that’s probably a good indicator that you’ve got something to say that people are engaging with on that particular platform. Double down. Don’t try to reinvent the wheel. And with the content you’re creating, you want to keep it laser focused so it does hit that specific person that’s looking for a specific solution. And you don’t look like a Swiss Army knife. You look more like a scalpel. You have one purpose, you have one solution that you provide, but you are the expert in that. You are the thought leader in that. You are the one that people turn to because you can help them solve this problem better than anyone else. That’s the intention you want to have in place.
Molly Ruland:
I love it. So let’s talk a little bit about your journey as an entrepreneur and marketer in this space because we started talking a little bit about doing social media in 2009 and man a long way, baby. I think it was like maybe 2006 when I started or it was between 2006 and 2009. I know that because a friend of mine, Liz Rudner, gets a lot of mentions on this podcast. Actually, she hit me up. I had just had neck surgery and I wasn’t working and she was working for this bar doing graphic design. She said, I don’t want to do this stuff. Will you do social media? And Facebook was a very different thing. It was very intrusive. And so what I did was I searched for college students that were within the colleges near the bar. And at that point you could just search by whatever class and then I would just go in and friend request people, and I would send out like 100 requests right, all around the bar of the university. And then I’d log in two days later and out of all the people that said yes, I would go in and then friend request all their friends because they would say, oh, well, they’re two mutual friends. It’s very invasive, you know what I mean? It’s why Facebook has changed. But what happens? I grew my Facebook to 5000 people in the early 2013 or earlier. I had like a massive following. And then they changed how you could search for people. Now you can’t search that way anymore. But I built this crazy on my personal Facebook, which now, 15 years later or whatever, has evolved into this really crazy tapestry of people. Sometimes I’m like, how did you get on my list? And I’m like, oh yeah, 2007 bread, soda bar and restaurant. That’s how that happened. But what a crazy journey it’s been right since the beginning of all of this. So how has your journey been shaped and molded? Because you’ve been in marketing for a long time.
Jason Cercone:
Yeah, me and my friend, I don’t consider either of us pioneers or trailblazers or trendsetters in any capacity, but we saw this platform, mainly Facebook and Twitter, we saw them both. And we’re like, this is going to be something, just the connectivity that this has, businesses are going to need to be aware of this. And it was sort of that same conversation. I mean, this was before my time, but I know the conversation took place when you move people from the phone book to the internet and everyone, oh, that’s a fad that’s going away. No one’s ever going to be on that thing. I stick to my phone book ads and blah, blah, blah. Well, you fast forward to now. Social media is Web 2.0. This is the new way of connecting. This is the new way of being in front of people. And everyone looked at it and said, why would I want to be there? That’s just where people post the pictures that they had, like what they had for lunch. If I had a nickel for every time somebody said that to us, that was the impression. That was what people thought these platforms were. And there were enough businesses that we were able to maintain a small but somewhat successful enterprise just by saying, look, here’s how you can make connections that could bring people through your door. And at that point, ecommerce wasn’t not a thing, but it really wasn’t who we were targeting. We were looking at brick and mortar businesses that needed a vehicle to communicate with their audience members. And you’re right. I remember just going on Twitter and there were a number of different programs where you could just go in and follow everyone else’s followers. Yeah, and it would just build this inflated number. And I had fallen in with some people that said, oh, yeah, the bigger your number looks, the better it’s going to be because you’re going to look important. And I fell for it. Not taking into account that it doesn’t matter how big the number is, if none of them are engaged, what’s the difference? It’s all vanity. And I carry my hatred of vanity metrics over to podcasting to this day because of that. Because if you’re too fixated on your download numbers and not thinking about who you’re truly impacting with your show, you’re missing the point. But that’s a rant for I could go into the rant if you want me to, but nevertheless, it’s come a long way. And of course, I look at social media completely differently now, and I am more about what network will have the best impact, where will you have the most engagement on your end of it? With creation, but also with people responding to what you’re putting in front of them. And yeah, it’s been a long and winding road and I’m glad I gravitated more to podcasting because I prefer that over the social media of today. Way more. Way more.
Molly Ruland:
Yeah, same. And I think the real peopleness of podcasting is going to become increasingly more important with the age of AI and deep fakes and all that. And I know people could deep fake us, but like, ain’t nobody deep faking me. I’m not that important, first of all. But we’re going to really lose that and it’s going to be like, well, did AI write that social media caption? Did AI make that picture? Did AI do that? Did AI do that? Well, it’s like, well, AI didn’t sit here and make me sound dumb. I did that all by myself, you know what I mean? And I think people are going to really enjoy that more and look for that more, especially when the people that they want to hire, like a coach or a consultant. I want to know who you are. I don’t want to know what your social media assistant created for your aesthetic. I want to know who you are. I want to hear your voice. If you’re sarcastic and a little funny, I’m in there, right? My vanity metrics are a little different. Like, if you skew towards stand up comedy and you’re mildly offensive, I already like you. You’re like family to me.
Jason Cercone:
This is why we click, Molly. This is definitely why we click. We get the personality there.
Molly Ruland:
And so podcasting is a great way to really just kind of shine that personality. Like, you can show your thought lead ship and like, yeah, I know what I’m doing, man. We can talk about branding and marketing all day and people will know I know what I’m talking about. But I like to have a good time and I don’t take myself too seriously. And I think that’s important because you want to attract the type of people. That you want to do business with, and that will resonate with you. And it’ll be easy because when you don’t speak the same language, you’re not on the same page. It makes it really difficult. So creating content that people could listen to who you are, what a great way to hack a very big system that keeps trying to convince us that more is more and more is not always more.
Jason Cercone:
Right. And it’s an extended period of time that you’re with somebody as well. Even if you’re doing seven to ten minute episodes, that’s more than the 15 to 32nd reel that somebody is consuming you’re in their ear for that extended period of time. It accelerates everything you’re doing in regards to building a relationship with that listener. And that relationship is going to be key because when they do decide they want to go to the next level, they do want to put some money down on this transformation. It means so much to them that they are finally ready to say, okay, I’m sick of the I just did it this morning with weight loss, with Vince sanity, or his name is Vince Sant, to see this dude’s ads every day finally just said, you know what? I’ve seen enough that it makes sense for me to do this because I got to fix some things in my life when it comes to my fitness. But he was constantly, consistently in my face with content. Whether it was paid or organic, he was there. Clearly, the algorithm picked up on me wanting to see this. It took me to the next level and I put my credit card down. This is how you have to look at everything you’re creating as well. The people in your world are going to get to that point, but it’s going to take time. But if you’re connecting with them through the podcast, you have all the time in the world to continue to build that relationship. And when they’re ready, their trust is going to be through the roof. And that’s what you need.
Molly Ruland:
Exactly. I love it. Well, cheers to you for making that decision to take your first step on the fitness journey, because thank you.
Matt Billman:
I only see so many videos of washboard ABS until you want to get some washboard.
Jason Cercone:
I don’t even care. I don’t want to look like a Hershey Kiss when I sit down anymore. That’s where I got to get rid of that little midsection. I’ll be in good shape.
Molly Ruland:
I laugh because I got my own Hershey’s Kiss right here.
Matt Billman:
We were literally talking about this this morning.
Molly Ruland:
Yeah, literally. But it is important, and it’s hard when you have a business that involves sitting in a computer for so long, it is hard to stay active. So cheers to you for making that first step. And before we go, for anybody that’s listening that’s like, I want to start a solo podcast, this sounds like a good idea and I want to work with Jason. What’s the best way to do that?
Jason Cercone:
I invite you to jump over to Jasonsercone.com Mastermind and check out the program that I put together. What I’ve built is a fully interactive 60 day experience for any coach or consultant that wants to do this the right way. And within that 60 days, and it’s a small setting, it’s not going to be anything huge. Any of these Mastermind sessions will have no more than ten of your peers, ten of your like minded professionals that are all looking to achieve the same result. So we’re going to work together to build your podcast, build your infrastructure, and put everything in place. We’re going to line up all the pieces so you can successfully launch your podcast within 60 days or improve an existing podcast to make sure it’s getting you the objectives that you see. But at the end of the 60 days, you’re going to have all of the tools and all of the strategies to take your show to the next level. And you’ll also be part of the community in perpetuity so that support will continue to be in play. We’ll talk about getting together for live sessions in the future, but right now it’s all about building your show the right way. And that’s why I designed this Mastermind the way I did. Check that out. If you feel it’s for you, sign up on the spot or give me a call and we can talk about it in more detail.
Molly Ruland:
Right on. I love it. Very clear and concise you guys know what to do. If you’re interested in starting a solo podcast, I would head up Jason. That’s where I would begin. The built in accountability and being a Mastermind is invaluable. It really is. Even if you feel like you’re somebody who doesn’t need accountability, you’re wrong.
Jason Cercone:
That’s why I’m not a business.
Molly Ruland:
You’re wrong. You heard it here, folks. But seriously, accountability is great and doing stuff with other people who are also interested in moving themselves forward. There’s a lot of power in those numbers and that mutual support there. So hit up Jason, Jasonsercon.com Mastermind and get in where you fit in, people. Thank you for tuning in to Camp content. Thank you Jason, for being on the show. And I’m sure we’ll be hanging out again. We get to hang out like every couple of weeks now, so I’m sure the next opportunity will arise sooner than later. And thank you for tuning in. If you found this content valuable, please share it on LinkedIn. Tag us. Let’s chop it up, let’s talk about it. And until next time, be excellent to each other. Thank you.
Jason Cercone:
Thanks, guys.
