Molly Ruland:

Alright. Welcome to another episode of cam content. I am hanging out with Dejan. I’m pretty sure I got that right. Pretty stoked about that. We are gonna talk about marketing, content marketing, data, and lots of data conversations today. but please welcome Dejan. He is one of the co-founders of Grow and Scale. they are a, the best way to put it is a sales competitive and sales enablement company. And so if you’re anything like me, you’re wondering what does that mean? What do they do? And so we’re going to jump right into it. He has owned the business since let’s see. I put my note in here. 2019, May of 2019. So just a few months after we started our business, it was actually a crazy time to start a business, right before a global pandemic. So we’re gonna definitely jump on that. but without any further ado, please welcome to the show day on. What’s up, buddy?

Dejan Gajsek:

Hey, Molly. I’m excited to be here. Thanks for letting me jump here.

Molly Ruland:

Yeah. Absolutely. You know, I was checking out all the stuff, and I’m excited to talk to you and talk about content marketing and talk about your business and talk about all of the things. So first things first, you’re located in Canada. but where are most of your team and your business partners talking about that a little bit?

Dejan Gajsek:

Yeah. Sure. So I’m in Calgary in Canada, as I like to say, the meat capital of Canada or the Austin alternative, for Canada. Okay. is in Spain, and I’m originally from Selena. So most of our employees, seven of them, they’re over notes, and they live in Selena. So We are widespread.

Molly Ruland:

That’s awesome. I love that you created a business, but you’re looking back to where you’re from and your roots and employing people. I think that’s awesome. I think this global economy is a great thing for people when it’s equitable. Right? Do you know? And so, that’s super cool. Do you run into any struggles or difficulties having a business partner who’s not, you know, right next to you or even in the same country?

Dejan Gajsek:

That’s true, but mostly because my business partner is probably the top 1% best communicator. Like, she really knows how to handle everything. So I just, hey, I trust you. We’ve been going strong for 4 years, and that’s it. I mean, I think that’s a secret ingredient. Just say, shows that your partner is going to carry their weight and more. And, then you can work on processes and communications, but that’s about it. It’s not, it’s not in secret.

Molly Ruland:

And how did you two meet since you’re from different places and all that? How did you come together?

Dejan Gajsek:

Well, I’ve been working with early-stage startup companies for nine, eight years, and she came up working with me as an assistant at that point. but she was just so good that after a few years, we were like, Hey, let’s partner up together and create a company.

Molly Ruland:

That’s awesome. I like that. So tell me, what is competitive and sales enablement? because I’ve been in sales for a long time. And I was like, I’m not really sure what that is. So talk to me, like, I’m a five-year-old.

Dejan Gajsek:

Yeah. For sure. Sales and capacity enablement is basically, I can almost say it’s like a version of content marketing, but instead of researching, writing, producing assets, collateral materials is on, for public use, you’re actually feeding your sales departments and product departments, customer success departments, so they can execute on their goals. So for, just for example, a competitive enablement market. Let’s just say that, you’re competing against and losing deals towards a big competitor. Right? your annual contracts are 50, 100 k or more. And you have to win that account because the lifetime value is just going to be delicious. so you need to arm your salespeople to be as prepared for those sales calls as possible. That’s where you’re going to research and then create content just based on, let’s say, pricing, future tear downs, sales battle cards, top tracks, by the wind, why we lose, all those materials so you can support your salespeople on the call, and they can get all those assets while they’re on the call and speak intelligently and keep the chances of winning that deal in their favor.

Molly Ruland:

Interesting. So it’s kind of data-driven, but competitor analysis, essentially. Is that

Dejan Gajsek:

Yeah. It’s a lot of data gathering, but then turning all the data into insights insights and turning into a format, the sales departments can access and use, actually. and then tracking it, tracking win rates, tracking if, if they’re winning deals against those competitors that they previously lost. And, that’s how you go.

Molly Ruland:

Yeah. Data is really important. I think a lot of times we just, like, you know, create content as business owners. Right? You just create content. You put it out there. I mean, a lot of people aren’t even paying attention to what time of day. I know if I put up some content in the morning, it’ll get, like, 6000 views. I can put that same piece of content up at 4 PM. It’s gonna get seven views. It’s like, you know, there’s a lot of information that you need to look at there to be able to make decisions, and so it’s not always content. Sometimes it’s when you put it up or how you put it up. So I’d imagine, a lot of that comes into play. What is a battle card and why is it important?

Dejan Gajsek:

Yeah. That’s great. So a valid card is something you can think of as an index card or a cheat sheet for a salesperson. As soon as they have a prospect on the call and the prospect mentions, hey, how are you guys better than a competitor? a salesperson would bring this battle card and it could be made a notion in PDF. It’s usually one or two pages. and they see all the relevant information from competitor data, competitor pricing, competitor strengths and weaknesses, and then talk tracks, like, what should I, as a salesperson, say, in this case, to, win that deal, or even not even winning the deal, but also, ask a question that could inflict doubt into a competitor. into a competitor, performance. So it’s all based on really rigorous research. And then you include all that data and this is nice with a nice format. And that’s being used, usually, our clients see a bigger win rating with those deals.

Molly Ruland:

So how does growth and scale work? Like, are you an internal sales company, or do you just prep the leads and team up with the client and then close them? Like, how does that process work?

Dejan Gajsek:

Yeah. We’re a service provider. So we usually connect with the product marketing manager, sometimes the head of sales, and they tell us, okay. We are reusing against this particular competitor, or we are not prepared because we don’t have enough materials for collateral. So we do the whole solution detective work and then feed those salespeople or in our case, program manager sales, head of sales, or product marketing managers. with the exact thing that they need. And that could be an account-based marketing pitch deck. It could be a conference note-taking, just see what the competitor is doing. But in most cases, the biggest priority is we need to start winning deals. So it’s usually those, backward parts.

Molly Ruland:

So are you the people that you’re typically working with, do you find that they’re calling you guys because they’re not closing deals and their wreck is a problem? like, how do you find your clients? Because a lot of people don’t wanna admit that there’s a problem. Right? And it’s not even necessarily, you know, a conscious decision. It’s like you wanna believe as a business owner, things are working. You’ve got this, you know, blinders on sometimes. Right? So are you reaching out to companies to say, hey? We can, you know, up your close rate, or are they coming to you? Like, how are you finding these people?

Dejan Gajsek:

We were really lucky at the start. I was not working a lot. And the first project that we started working with was with Microsoft and that led up to other referrals. So until today, 95% of our business is through either our own network or referrals, and that’s kind of proof that we’re doing good work because the retention has been 100%. but, from now on, we’re investing more into education, posting on socials, and just kinda like shedding or spotlighting that this is a problem because it hasn’t been a problem so far, competitive enablement is a relatively new term, And the biggest thing in the market today, like, there are so many amazing products. Like, yes, every company says, we’re the best at this. And yes, there are really small margins or small differentiation between this learning management system and 6 others. So the real thing that you should invest in, is how you are not better, but different and a better fit for your client. And that’s where all these data research insights come in because users are just trying to meet a perfect fit, not necessarily a better fit.

Molly Ruland:

Well, you’re also going on other people’s podcasts to spread the word about your company, which we’re doing right now on cam content. So, Have you found going on other people’s podcasts to be beneficial for your business, or is this a new mission for you? This is Amanda.

Dejan Gajsek:

And, yeah, I’m way out of my comfort zone as you know. So, I’m enforcing my thick European accent and everybody. So I’m sorry for that, but — Oh, no.

Molly Ruland:

It’s a beautiful accent. I wish I had a better one. You know, trust me. We’re in a global marketplace. Like, I think, I think it’s amazing. You know, I grew up in America, but I live in another country. I live in Costa Rica. So I’m learning Spanish. So, like, I’ve always had respect, but I have even more respect for people who speak more than one language. So your accent is a sign of intelligence, and nothing else. So you certainly shouldn’t apologize, but,

Dejan Gajsek:

No, I think that’s great. You gotta remind me, you gotta remind me, of my friend who’s a really good salesperson, and he said, well, 90% of the things, why wind deals are just because I use my British accent

Molly Ruland:

because they just sound more intelligent. Like, Okay. I mean, there’s some truth to that, you know? There’s some truth to that for sure. Well, you know, going on other people’s podcasts is great. You know, me, it’s always about relationships. Right? So, you know, maybe somebody listening will be enticed to call you guys or check you out or refer you to somebody But more than likely, it’s gonna be me. You know, it’ll be me now that I understand your business, and I know you. I’m sure at some point, and then in a couple of years, I’m gonna hit you, go, I have the perfect person for you. Right? And so the ROI on this kind of content you know, creation investment is really high, especially going on other people’s podcasts versus hosting your own, like the expense and commitment is significantly lower. But, enough about that. So who, who, like, what kind of people should be using your services? Like, who should be looking to improve? Who’s your ideal client?

Dejan Gajsek:

yeah. Ideal clients are B2B tech companies. that are in super highly competitive environments, which most of them are. If you saw that graph of Martech tools, like, every year. It’s 2000 more things. It’s 2 1000 more. It’s like, oh, how many cybersecurity options do you have there?

Molly Ruland:

Five hundred,

Dejan Gajsek:

in the LMS of CRMs, all that data management and platforms. There are so many solutions. So we are usually best fit for those kinds of companies that have really enticing high-price accounts. in very competitive fields, and they just need some differentiation and strategy on how to start winning deals consistently.

Molly Ruland:

Yeah. I mean, it’s a thing, right, because especially with AI, like, companies are just popping up left and right, you know, for smaller services admittedly, you know, especially in the podcast space or written content or video. It’s like every week, there’s a new company. It does the exact same thing. that the other company did. it’s really hard to be different and stand out in that realm, whether it’s a video player, you know, or, you know, the editing software or the video clipping tool, you know, it’s really all kind of the same platform. It’s just packaged in a different UX. So there’s a, you know, very competitive space there. And it can be overwhelming for the end user too. It’s like, well, how do you know which one of these is better? So, I think dialing in on that information and being able to use it in your marketing too, would probably be very helpful, like, It is very overwhelming. And then you got companies like AppSumo who are sending you new deals every day. Oh my gosh. You know?

Dejan Gajsek:

I have a lot of hate for AppSumo because everybody else is buying it. I’m gonna buy this clothing or I’m gonna buy this. Me, I’m just buying software deals from mine. So I spent my money

Molly Ruland:

I know. I buy app sumo deals and fonts, like, font packages whenever, like, designing stuff. Those are my, my Achilles heel, but you gotta love a lifetime deal. I mean, you can’t argue that. There’s a few software programs that I use that IN a lifetime deal on. And now five years later, I’ve actually saved a significant amount of money not having to pay every single month. So shout out to AppSumo. But, Alright. So let me — — for sure. Yeah. I know. What’s up, AppSumo? That’s a great idea. I’m gonna hit them up. But, so let’s talk about how content marketing fits into, you know, competitive and sales enablement roles. Like, how do these worlds come together?

Dejan Gajsek:

Yeah. That’s the story about how our company came to be and why we pivoted because we started with content marketing. and we got really good at it, because account and marketing is basically, we know, kinda like sandbox, and you have to do a thorough research. You have to know your customer. You have to know the company, its guidelines, their vision, its mission statement, and all that jazz that sounds kinda like there’s so many things. Just write me a blog post, but it’s not like this. You have to create the best art for the best blog post, and the best case study, and that requires a lot of research. And when we were working with our clients, they asked us, hey, you guys have been producing good content, but can you help us in this direction, which was the enablement part? And we said, oh, we haven’t done this before, but let’s give it a try. And the good thing is there’s a lot of overlap because you’re still doing research that is just maybe three levels deeper. Right now, it’s not just the customer or just the client company. Now it’s looking at the competitor, right, sleuthing their social media channels, reviews, forums, anything that we can get our hands on, and then producing content. as you have to produce content, but instead of producing content for external use, you’re using that content to feed internal teams in, within, in your client contract. And the good part is you can see there’s a lot of overlap. But the good part is with content, sometimes you will have to wait 3, or 6 months for SEO juice to kick in. Or you just have to force it to pay debts to see how that is performing. because we’re feeding internal teams, we can get feedback quite fast because okay. But last quarter, we had this amount of win rates on the competitive deals. This quarter, we have a 20% improvement, and that brings us this much money because it’s all tied to revenue. So that’s why we just decided, we still love content. We still do it on a small part. but we want to be the best in sales and competitive enablement because we see these results and we see, and our clients love us for that.

Molly Ruland:

For sure. Well, and there’s nothing better than, like, firsthand feedback, you know, like, if you’re in the sales teams are talking to people, they’re getting those objections, they’re getting those requests, or Hey. We’d like it better if your software did this or whatever. And so that’s the best people to give feedback. And a lot of times, you know, people are looking outside the company or looking in the wrong place for that information when really it’s like your frontline workers. They get all that feedback. They know what the customer is thinking or what the potential customer was thinking when they decided not to go with you. So it makes a lot of sense to get that information and then give them better information to hit those objections when they’re in real-time. That makes a lot of sense for sure. So, tell me a little bit about, you know, some of your philosophy is around marketing and sales and tech and in general.

Dejan Gajsek:

Sure. I was always a little bit cheeky in my way of working. It’s always customer focused. So for me, I mean, Let’s just figure out, like, how SEO has been a prominent thing in most of the agencies or when you get a pitch, and I think it’s less and less now. But usually, when they get a pitch for content, they provide it to us as well. we’re gonna get you to the first place on Google. We’re gonna create all those backlinks. We’re gonna get you traffic, and visibility. But That’s not it. That wasn’t it for me. Like, for me, it was, let’s make sure that we start winning deals. First, So the philosophy that I’ve done with the content was, let’s make sure that we get a lot of conversions and we get the best possible content that educates and brings value to the reader. make sure you have the right reader first, and then we can go into the SEO play. So it’s all about, I would rather have fifty people that are potential buyers than 5000 people that come and check my, I don’t know, 30 nine ways to post a social media cost. I don’t know. It’s going into quality first and then going from there into, working on traffic from that point once you have all the holes in your sales funnel, field. So that was always my approach, and it’s been working for the last 3 startups that I work with. And, it still becomes, like, my major red line in my career. Let’s make sure that there’s quality there. start small, start experimenting, always talk to customers, always figure out what’s the main problem first, and then go from there.

Molly Ruland:

Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. I mean, you gotta start with a customer first. I think a lot of people are really stuck on the vanity metrics of going viral and getting all these big numbers. And it’s like, especially you see it on LinkedIn a lot where people write these really long posts, and they have, like, 5000 comments on them or whatever. And I’m convinced there are some people who just sit around all day and comment on LinkedIn posts, but I’m so curious to see, like, are those discovery calls. Are they actually leading to anything, or is it just like your Instagram or your LinkedIn has a ton of engagement and you’re one of the top creators, but, like, is your phone ringing? Are you closing deals? You know? I’ve recently had a client go on TikTok. And in months, she got 5000 followers. and videos with millions of views and not a single discovery call booked. And so she was like, I’m not even gonna spend any time on that, but the appeal is so great. Right? It’s like more and more and more higher numbers, like, all of that data, but if it’s not translating into sales calls, then — Yeah. What’s the point? What’s the point? You know, you’re just stroking your own ego at that point and painfully so because most people don’t even enjoy it. So, you know, the hardest person to keep in the company is the social media person. Like, every single company I talk to struggles with finding a good social media person. Right? And I think it’s because they’re focused on the numbers instead of The discovery calls, the deals, you know, what’s really happening from all that content?

Dejan Gajsek:

Yeah. It’s true. I mean, just imagine probably a few weeks ago, about all that AI content. You’re just like, Hey, AI is here, but 99% of people don’t know how to use it, and then you have 10,000 likes. I mean, it’s cute and you have a nice visual there, but if your business is, I don’t know, data management, how do any of those 10,000 user engagements actually part of your ideal customer profile? I don’t think so, but, hey. You probably feel good because you got so much attention.

Molly Ruland:

Well, that’s the thing. It’s that little dopamine. it. Right? But you can spend so much time doing that. Then at the end of the month, you’re like, I haven’t closed any deals or I haven’t closed enough deals. You know, I think in larger companies, like the people you’re working with, that doesn’t probably happen as much, but with solopreneurs, it’s so easy to go after that shiny object. And then you’re like, I just spent three months doing this, and I have nothing to show for it, instead of really just looking at competitors and picking up the phone and making those calls and getting in front of people. so, tell me, what is the best way for people to find you to work with you? I see oh, I had to ask you because on your website, the scaling grows, and you have a free competitive enablement audit. And so I’m curious. Are people taking you up on that? Are they taking that quiz?

Dejan Gajsek:

yeah. That’s a really good way to just test the strength of your enablement power at your company. So that’s a perfect way to just, like, see where you are. It’s a two-minute quiz. We’ll ask you questions about, hey, you have, you have three identified competitive competitors, do you run win-loss analysis, all that stuff? So I would invite anyone, whether they’re struggling or they’re in competitive environments, to just go on grown skill.com, take that quiz and see where they are. And it’s going to give you, like, a personalized review. Hey, you’re doing this, got these things right, and it will give you some suggestions on what to do. So there’s value in that. And For anyone that’s listening, I’m happy to connect. I’m on LinkedIn almost, yeah, every day. Just type in my name copy and paste because where to pronounce and where to write. And, let’s go from there. I’m happy to connect.

Molly Ruland:

That’s amazing. Well, I definitely appreciate coming on the show day and hanging out with me and answering some questions. I always love learning about other companies and what they’re doing. And so, yeah, if you’re listening to this show, please definitely go to growenscale.com. take that, free competitive enablement audit. I’m gonna take it because why not? You know, if you can get some feedback on your business and it doesn’t cost you anything, that seems like a really great idea to me. So thank you for coming on the show. and for everybody, please head to the website, take the quiz, and follow the day on LinkedIn. He is super popular. He’s got, like, 9000 followers. He’s a famous guy on LinkedIn, and I would imagine he’s probably posting really good content. So I actually followed you this morning, and I will be staying tuned to what you got coming up next. But, On that note, thank you again for joining us. And if you are tuning in to the show today, thank you for your time. I find it valuable. And if you think this content was valuable in any way. Please share it on LinkedIn and tag me, and we can talk about it and connect there. So have a great day. And until next time, be excellent to each other. Thank you.