Molly Ruland:

Welcome to camp content where today’s episode is a master class in mastering your message. We’re thrilled to introduce our guests, Sabine Kvenberg, a seasoned communication and confidence coach, author, and former director, and actress. You know, anybody who knows the entertainment business is really good at this stuff because we’ve been through it. So Sabine’s illustrious career began in Europe and flourished further when she founded a performing art school in the United States, a cradle for aspiring entertainers. What it doesn’t say in this bio is that you ran that for 26 years, if I’m not mistaken, which is massively impressive. With her celebrity signature message coaching, Sabine empowers entrepreneurs to captivate audiences, make impactful presentations, and shine in the business spotlight. She is the author of Secrets on How to Succeed in Showbiz, Distinguished Toastmaster, and a finalist in Toastmasters International Speech Contest. Sabine’s accolades speak volumes, but it’s her hands-on approach blending music, movement, and storytelling that truly sets her apart, whether it’s through her STAR framework or advocating for the power of video content, we love that.

Molly Ruland:

Sabine is dedicated to helping small business owners and accidental entrepreneurs communicate confidently, connect authentically, and convert leads into clients. So get ready for insights on overcoming public speaking fears, engaging video presentations, and the art of authentic communication from a woman who’s crossed the Atlantic with dreams that have since been transformed into a legacy, with 4 suitcases and a big idea. So let’s jump right in. Welcome to the show, Sabine. So lovely to have you here.

Sabine Kvenberg:

Thank you, Molly. It’s a pleasure to be here, and I look forward, speaking to you and your audience.

Molly Ruland:

Yes, miss. So I got to know the story of you and the 4 suitcases and heading to America for this dream. So tell us a little bit about that origin story there.

Sabine Kvenberg:

Well, as you mentioned, I was on a stage in Europe for 10 years, and then I, that’s where I met my now husband, and then we traveled the world and put on shows all over the world. But at one point you have to ask yourself the question, all right, what’s next? And we knew that we wanted to settle down. And my husband is from the states. He is American, I’m German. And so we were discussing what we were going to do. He lived in Germany for a couple of years, but then we made a decision: we wanna pass on the passion for the performing arts to a new generation and start our own business, a performing art school. So literally that was our dream and we sold everything and literally had 4 suitcases. That was our possession that we took with us and started all over. And that was the beginning of a dream that became reality and that led to so many wonderful opportunities and many options and opportunities to serve on a greater level.

Molly Ruland:

It’s amazing. And you ran that school for 26 years. Is that correct?

Sabine Kvenberg:

No. It’s not quite correct. It’s 27 years.

Molly Ruland:

27. Okay. I knew I was.

Sabine Kvenberg:

I mean, that’s just kidding. Yeah.

Molly Ruland:

That’s impressive, though. I mean, you gotta really bend and sway with the tide on something like that to run something for 27 years. And even though you could argue that you don’t know, arts and theater, it doesn’t really change, but it does because the world is constantly changing and people change. So, like, when you started your business and when you closed it, I’m sure it was, you know, a very evolved, you know, operation. And so kudos to you for that because that’s super impressive, you know.

Sabine Kvenberg:

Thank you. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, talking about change, we were the, the, the, the only studio in town, the only school that offered all of that. And that led to many people copying us, many of our students starting their school grade, and also a theater to come into our town and actually were asking us to collaborate with them, which we did for many, many years. So it’s really, quite interesting. And the other thing is, as far as what’s changed, when there is, of course, more competition and a growing economy, you have to adapt. You have to adapt to talking about marketing.

Sabine Kvenberg:

It was the first business where we lived. We had a website because that’s when we started out basically, and so we were the 1st who collected money online while others still had to collect checks. So you have to stay on track. You have to be a forerunner for everything.

Molly Ruland:

So what was the catalyst in closing that business? Because that’s a big deal. That’s a big decision to make. What made that happen?

Sabine Kvenberg:

That’s an interesting question. And I believe we all grow in our lives, in our businesses. And there was a point where I started, already going into different areas. It all began by me helping aspiring actors to get their start in the entertainment industry. I searched for them. I prepared them. Got them in front of agents and casting directors, which then led to my writing my first book, secrets and how to succeed in showbiz. And one of the things that I noticed when I worked with talent is that talent is only 20%.

Sabine Kvenberg:

80% is your mindset and everything. And that’s when I started that workbook that turned into a book. And then I started speaking for other audiences and they wanted to have another book, a book to leave behind or take with them. Mhmm. And that’s my 2nd, unlock your full potential. So it’s really a journey that led me to where I am now. And after, you know, I was already like 24 years old. It was like, you know, it’s time for me to move on, to serve another audience and everything that I’ve learned along the way, the mindset and so forth. And then we had our 25th anniversary show, and I said, you know, that’s a great place to then stop and move on, but guess what? The pandemic hit.

Sabine Kvenberg:

Boom. Then what do you do with the business when you have to close your doors? In Virginia, we were not allowed to operate. So boom. Now I had to start thinking again, what do we do differently to not lose the business? And obviously, the business went down a little bit, of course, but we started everything online. But despite the fact, I said to my husband, we already lived in Florida. My school was in Virginia. So I went back and forth a couple of times a year. I said, you know, it’s time for me.

Sabine Kvenberg:

I love it here and I love coaching and I love to now work with more entrepreneurs. And that was the catalyst for me to say, okay. This is it. I’ve made it public, and then the right person came along to take over.

Molly Ruland:

That’s amazing. I can definitely, sorry, Matt. I could definitely relate to that because my story is kinda similar. I was in the entertainment business for 22 years and working with artists. And, yeah, it’s a real mindset shift, you know, with different people for sure. You know, working with artists can be really difficult because they’re narcissistic by nature, which you kind of have to be in order to, you know, to get up on stage and perform in front of people. And it was really kind of difficult. And so I really liked the shift of working with entrepreneurs and people who are excited about creating the future and automation and, you know, everything else.

Molly Ruland:

It’s like a slightly different type of person that you’re working with when it’s, you know, a creative versus an entrepreneur, even though there’s a lot of similarities. You know?

Sabine Kvenberg:

It it is yes and no. I believe we always can be the light in whatever industry we are working with. If this is what you put to the forefront. And that’s always have been a very, high point of mine also working in the entertainment industry. Same thing with with entrepreneurs, and that’s the beauty, Molly. We can pick and choose the people that we want to work with because not everybody’s a fit for for me or you or anybody. And so but, yeah, you’re absolutely right. Working with entrepreneurs is just on a different level.

Molly Ruland:

Different. Yeah. Matt, were you about to say something? I cut you.

Matt Billman:

No. I was just like, most people get the 25 year anniversary, and they’re like, yeah. We’re doing great. Let’s keep going. Like, yeah. We made it. Let’s shut it down.

Molly Ruland:

Let’s do something different.

Matt Billman:

Like, finally, got to 25. Boom. Cut it off.

Sabine Kvenberg:

That’s it. That’s it.

Matt Billman:

No. No. It’s interesting because, like you mentioned, you were like, earlier you said, like, oh, like, we’re the 1st to kinda start selling stuff, you know, online and getting paid via that way. So is there anything else that kind of in your journey that you’re maybe the 1st to do in terms of, you know, growing the coaching business or the the content marketing or or with clients or anything, is there something else that you can think of? Like, oh, we were kind of the first to do this as well.

Sabine Kvenberg:

Well, combining my background in the entertainment industry and then the next step, I was also a musical theater performer. But throughout my journey, I started writing my own music for, actually, my clients. Actually, for me, it started out really for me and my church congregation, but then it turned into empowering music because music is such an important part in how we communicate because music is another form of communication. And when you combine music with content, and when I work with my clients, I often take music to get them into the right state of mind so they can and also physical state so that they are pumped up and that, yes, I’m ready to go. Now I can present my talk. But also when you incorporate music in your marketing materials, that is empowering. It’s a different level. So I think maybe that is one of the things combining my experience as an actress on stage in front of the camera, as director behind the camera, and also making sure that everybody’s doing the perfect presentation on stage.

Sabine Kvenberg:

Right? Guiding them and my business experience as well as being a Toastmaster. So I married all of that and that became very powerful. So now I have a very holistic approach with everything.

Molly Ruland:

I love it. I love that you use me. If you know, I’ve never heard anybody say that they use music before. But that’s super interesting because it is. I mean, I’m going deaf in my old age, and so I have to listen to everything with subtitles. And I’m like, what is jaunty music? Right? Because they always tell you they describe what kind of music is playing. But with those descriptors, you really do notice even more how much the music they play on every single TV show and every single movie really sets the tone for what’s happening in that conversation. Right.

Molly Ruland:

And I spent so much, you know, 20 plus years in the music business. So I understand it, but I’ve never really thought about combining those 2 together. And I know you do a lot of storytelling. So can you talk to us a little bit about your celebrity signature message and what that is? And

Sabine Kvenberg:

Absolutely. I’m happy too. So first of all, I believe we all are celebrities. We don’t have to be movie stars to be a celebrity because if you’re a celebrity it means you have this uniqueness within you, and that’s what I’m pulling out of my clients. And storytelling is a very huge aspect of creating your message. As I mentioned, I am from Germany and once in a while I visit my family. And, the other time that I was there, we all went to this huge carnival. And my niece said, oh, Sabine, let’s go on to this new roller coaster ride.

Sabine Kvenberg:

And I’m not very fond of rides, but of course, I wanna look cool. Right? I said, sure. So we went up that steep hill and I got this knot in my belly. Doubts came in and fears and then regrets. Why did I do this? Why did I do this? And I couldn’t see the ground anymore, and then there was the pinnacle, the top. And I knew I couldn’t go back. Right? There’s no way. So when I was at the top, I just closed my eyes and prayed that I would come alive at the bottom.

Sabine Kvenberg:

And before you know it, I was there, and I didn’t remember half of it.

Molly Ruland:

Right.

Sabine Kvenberg:

Now this is what you sometimes can connect to public speaking or, compare, here we go, that’s the right word, compared to public speaking. We all know we have to do it either in our personal lives, as a bridesmaid or a good man, or in our business. We have to connect with our ideal audience. We have to convey our message powerfully so that we can grow our businesses. But when you go up or before you go up there, you have those doubts, those fears like going up on stage, like going up that steep hill, right? All of this comes in. And when you are finally there and you are on stage and went in front of the camera, give your presentation before you know it, you are at the end and don’t remember half of it. And then you ask yourself, did I say it the right way? Or did I have the right call to action? And when you see this, then I said, okay. How can I become better? How can I get rid of the jitters and do the right presentation? So I remember exactly what I said.

Sabine Kvenberg:

I know exactly what I want my audience to take away with, and I did the correct call to action. So people then do what I ask them to do. That’s the power of knowing how to speak. And that’s what I do in my celebrity signature talk.

Molly Ruland:

It’s amazing. You know, I’ve done a lot of public speaking, and I never had any nerves or jitters around it. And then I was speaking at the Podfest Expo the year of the pandemic in 2020. It was like the last event before everything shut down. 5 minutes before I got on stage, I found out that a very close friend of mine died. And every now and then it’s just like, every time I go to get on stage now, I have all this, like, nervousness that I’ve never ever helped feel before. I mean, you can hand me a microphone anywhere, and I’ll, you know, I would have no fear, but now it’s kind of evolved into that a little bit. So you just never you never know, like, what outside force or what, emotional response you’re gonna have or your nervous system, right? So I think so much of it is, like, learning how to control that, being confident in your message, you know, being confident in your call to action, really having that nailed down because you just never know.

Molly Ruland:

Up until then, I was, you know, probably a little too confident to get on stage, quite frankly. And so I think having those frameworks is really, really important for sure.

Sabine Kvenberg:

And and and what you said is so true, Marty. We never know what comes up. And as a performer, believe me, I had to go on stage no matter if I was sick, no matter what message I received, you still have to perform. But that’s what I teach with, and, with my client work when I work with my clients, I teach my 3 p’s, and that’s prime, prepare, and present. And when you prime yourself the correct way, do something in the right way over and over again, then when you come up either going on stage or receiving a message that you did by all means, you can get through it in a different way. And then the preparation, what you want to do, you want to make sure that you have the talk in the right way and the right sequences. So you know exactly what the outcome is.

Molly Ruland:

Yeah. That’s it. That is exactly it. That is exactly it. Having a really good talk makes it a lot easier to be really confident going into a situation like that.

Sabine Kvenberg:

And then the last, to finish this out, of course, the presentation. Oftentimes, people do not know how to present. I mean, there’s so many mistakes that you want to avoid. Pacing is one of them, or if you’re in front of the camera, you know, if you do big movements, you’re out of the frame, right? And then, and if you have the right vocal variety? Do you have the right body language? Oh, that’s another way of communicating. Right? See, people don’t remember what you said, but they always remember how you made them feel, and that is huge.

Molly Ruland:

Amen to that.

Matt Billman:

Fair enough.

Molly Ruland:

Amen to that. So, let’s talk about business in 2024 because I think we are in kinda a big shift right now, right? Like 20% of the work force has just been laid off. The market’s really changing. The marketplace is changing. I think you’re gonna have an increase in business because there’s gonna be a lot of c suite people that are getting dislodged from businesses that are now gonna take new approaches and maybe do some speaking or maybe start their own businesses. So, what are you looking for in 2024 as far as your business development and how you’re gonna get in front of new people to sell your services? What is your angle there?

Sabine Kvenberg:

Speaking. And I can only advise anybody who’s perhaps even starting their own business because as you mentioned, layoffs, some of them become what we call accidental entrepreneurs because now what? Okay. I do have a skill. How about I teach it or I share it myself? And the best way to do it is to speak. Go on other people’s stages, on podcasts or many other stages, either virtual stages or real stages. And when you know how to share your story, how to convey your message in a very effective way, how to know, how to ask for people’s business and how to create that trust, then that is huge. That is a huge advantage to anybody who does not speak, who does not take advantage of the unique you that you are.

Matt Billman:

So you keep talking about, you know, you may give where you pick some people up. And you talked about earlier how you kinda look back and remember exactly what you said. Is there something if you can think of that success story, is there a way you can think back? Be like, maybe I caught them at this exact part of this speech or anything.

Sabine Kvenberg:

It ‘s hard to say, but one thing that we are recording this year, and I can see your faces. When I started sharing my story, the roller coaster story, I saw both of you smiling. Right? So you were transported into my scene. Right? I think you probably am right if you kind of saw me going up the roller coaster? So and that is when you grab people’s attention and they are part of your world or part of your scene and they can see how you can help them. I once did an online workshop. I think that was during the pandemic. I did a camera confidence boot camp. That’s what I did.

Sabine Kvenberg:

And people got really connected to me when I started sharing those personal stories that they can relate to. You want to share a story that everybody can relate to. I mean, everybody can relate to a roller coaster, to a carnival. Right? And when you do that, wow, I saw the responses on Facebook. Oh my gosh. This was so powerful. I can’t wait to, for day 2 and so forth. And that then leads to hey.

Sabine Kvenberg:

The next thing is a b c, whatever your your, other programs are that can help them. But you want to connect there first, and that’s when I saw that when you share those powerful stories that connect with your audience.

Molly Ruland:

Yes. Alright. So let’s do a little lightning round. I have some questions teed up for you. And so these will just be kind of fun. Hopefully, they’ll be fun. And it touches on a lot of the things that we talked about. So are you ready to jump right into the lightning round?

Sabine Kvenberg:

Yep. Yeah. I am. I am.

Molly Ruland:

Alright. Okay. Here we go. What is 1 book or resource that revolutionized, that revolutionized your understanding of content marketing or marketing your business in general?

Sabine Kvenberg:

It all goes back to think and grow rich.

Molly Ruland:

That’s a good one. Yep. That’s a good one. What’s your number one tip for creating engaging video content?

Sabine Kvenberg:

Be yourself and make sure that you always have a call to action.

Molly Ruland:

Amen. I can’t tell you how many And

Matt Billman:

stay in frame.

Molly Ruland:

Yeah. And stay in frame. I can’t tell you how many talks I did with no real CTA, and I teach my clients all the time to have a CTA on their podcast so that I did the same thing. So I have to agree. What, number 3. Can you name a tool that you consider essential for content creation?

Sabine Kvenberg:

My iPhone. I mean, this is the simplest way. I mean, I use a lot of tools, but oftentimes, I have my iPhone with me. And today, it has the greatest camera, the greatest sound, and sometimes I am somewhere and I’ll pick it up because I need to share this. And hey. And you can upload it so easily. I mean, if I can pick 1, that’s the easiest, simplest that anyone can use.

Molly Ruland:

Amen. These phones can do so much these days. Even on video calls like this, you know, you can get a great little microphone that plugs into your phone, you know, and then you can do 1st person videos. You can do interviews. You can even do Zoom calls and stuff, and your phone camera’s almost always gonna be better than your laptop. So I think if people really lean into what their phone is capable of, they’d be pretty surprised. Right?

Sabine Kvenberg:

Especially Exactly. I always have this little microphone that I stick into my iPhone, and that’s actually how I started my 1st podcast, at Podfest in 2017.

Molly Ruland:

Wow.

Sabine Kvenberg:

I was so inspired, and I started recording my 1st episode while at Podfest in my car using my music as an intro, which is live your life out loud. Right? I invite you to be free. So it’s just living your life out loud. Throw away your doubt. Let your spirit shout. Live your life out loud. So that was already pumping up, and I recorded my 1st episode. Sometimes that’s how easy it is when you have your iPhone right there with a nice microphone.

Sabine Kvenberg:

Poof. You can do anything.

Molly Ruland:

There you go. Well, I think it’s important to mention the nice microphone. Right? You can’t do everything from your phone, but you come with a nice microphone.

Sabine Kvenberg:

Right. Right. Right.

Molly Ruland:

I love that you sang for us. That’s amazing. Okay. What is the most common speaking mistake that you see people making?

Sabine Kvenberg:

Well, quite a few. But the biggest mistake is pacing. The pacing. Pacing from one side to another or going rocking back and forth, rocking back because they’re so nervous. That’s that from the visual part. Right? And the second is, with your voice, there’s no vocal variety. You speak way too fast because you’re so nervous and you speak so fast and the tempos and nobody can understand and nobody can even sit back. It’s like you’re getting, you know, a water hose there, the content.

Sabine Kvenberg:

Right? And you lose your audience. So I think this would be the 2 most common. I mean, there are several others, but that sticks out.

Matt Billman:

I would say the the fast speaking’s gotta be the worst

Sabine Kvenberg:

Yeah. In my

Matt Billman:

opinion.

Molly Ruland:

Like, like,

Matt Billman:

as a listener, if you’re hearing somebody and you’re like, again? That was me. Exactly.

Molly Ruland:

That was me. I did a presentation at She Podcasts, and I don’t know what happened. I, like, misjudged my time, and then I was kinda rushing there, and I wasn’t, like, totally ready. And, I mean, I was a hot man. I was sweating. I was pacing. I was talking too bad. I was doing all of the things.

Molly Ruland:

It was the 1st time I presented since my friend had passed away, and it just really so yeah. I’ve been able to since then, but it was Yeah.

Matt Billman:

On our side of things with the podcast part, you get people come on here, and they’re just firing through questions or maybe they were doing a solo episode, and there’s like, I’m like, I’m gonna need you to redo that and take it down a notch. Slow down a bit.

Molly Ruland:

Slow it down a little bit. Okay. Oh, this is a good one because we talked about this one. Live web live or prerecorded, what format do you prefer for online presentations?

Sabine Kvenberg:

I use both, but here’s one little tip I give everybody, especially when they start out. And you want to get some feedback, do it live. If you have a webinar, for example, do it live so you get feedback from the audience. And when you do things live, you maybe make more mistakes that you can maybe take out when you do recordings. And I have to raise my hand here and say guilty as it is because I seem to be a perfectionist. When you come from the field of acting as a director and as a performer, everything has to be perfect. You have to make sure all the lines are perfect. You have to make sure your hair and your makeup is perfect.

Sabine Kvenberg:

And so that was my biggest hurdle

Matt Billman:

Mhmm.

Sabine Kvenberg:

And it took me a long time to get over that because everything had to be perfect.

Molly Ruland:

Perfect.

Sabine Kvenberg:

And I had to remind myself, no. And not English being my first language. I was self conscious about that as well. And eventually, I said, okay, Sabina. So what if you make a mistake? So what if you use past tense and not present tense or whatever? Right. People still will know what you meant and they see that you’re just like them.

Molly Ruland:

Mhmm.

Sabine Kvenberg:

Imperfection perfection. So here you go.

Molly Ruland:

Yeah. I love that. I can relate to that too living in Costa Rica and learning a new language for sure. Okay. And then the last 1 that I have for you is, what is your quickest method for overcoming anxiety before getting on a stage?

Sabine Kvenberg:

Breathing. That’s the prime. That’s one of the primes I’m teaching. That deep breathing, but the right breathing. Because here, you have, like, this shallow breathing right here, up here, and you cannot, slow that down. You have to bring it back into your belly. The deep belly breathing, that’s the number 1. And the number 2, how you prime yourself, is that you already know when this comes up and that doubt, like, oh, you can’t do it.

Sabine Kvenberg:

What do people think? Oh, stop, Sabina said. You got that. You got that. You prepared. And even if you make a mistake, so what? You just be you, and that is perfect. Those are the 2 things.

Molly Ruland:

I love it. Breathing is always as you know, it’s amazing how it’s such a simple thing that we’re all doing all day long, hopefully, anyway. Mhmm. But, it can really mess you up, you know, like, when you’re really stressed out and all of a sudden you go, just because you’ve been holding your breath the whole time. So, yeah, though that deep belly breathing can really go a long way. Well, Sabina, thank you so much for coming on the show today. It’s been a lot of fun. I love that you sang for us.

Molly Ruland:

We don’t get a lot of singing on the show. So yeah.

Matt Billman:

That’s good. That’s it. Maybe the 2nd time in 35 episodes

Molly Ruland:

or so. Exactly.

Matt Billman:

2nd time somebody’s song.

Molly Ruland:

Exactly. So

Matt Billman:

Because I can’t remember who it was that, like, wrote you, or wrote us, like, like, a custom

Molly Ruland:

song song song. Actually, it was 3 times. It was 3 times. That’s right. Three times. Because somebody else sang for us too on

Sabine Kvenberg:

well, it

Molly Ruland:

was a different podcast, but still but still, it’s it’s it’s a good one. So, well, Sabina, thank you for coming on the show. For all the people who have been listening, who are interested, which I’m sure they are because, you know, I have to say, you know, personally that, I know my biggest aggregator of business is public speaking. When I go out and I speak about podcasting and business development and things like, you know, relationship building, I always get a client from that. And so I totally understand the importance of public speaking and putting yourself out there. I feel like when you do that, then you attract the people that you wanna work with. You attract your tribe. Right? And so I curse a little bit.

Molly Ruland:

I’m a little irreverent. I crack jokes. I talk some back about people in a kind, you know, kind way. Like, not not in a rude way, but just to make people laugh and to loosen up a little bit. And that’s not everybody’s style, but people who do like it really wanna work with me because they’re like, you’re the they’re the type of energy in person. So I am a huge fan of getting more speaking engagements, speaking at, you know, networking events, you know, in your community, whether it’s, like, a women’s event or a men’s event, but really putting yourself out there. And I would imagine almost everybody could probably use your services. So what is the best way for people to connect with you if they are interested in learning your star method and your select signature, you know, series, all of that? How can they how can they get

Sabine Kvenberg:

with you? The best way, just go to Sabinekvenberg.com, sabinekvenberg.com/resources. That’s where you can download some free ones. But if you want to talk with me right away, if you say, I need to talk with Sabine, just go talk to Sabine .com.

Molly Ruland:

Amazing. Look at that. You know what you’re doing, Sabine. I gotta tell you. I gotta. It is clear. It is very clear. Yep.

Molly Ruland:

Well, thank you for coming on the show today. We really appreciate it. You know, I love how we connected, and here we are recording a podcast together. You know? 2024, here we come. So, thank you for being on the show today, and we’ll talk to you again real soon. Thank you all for coming to the show today and tuning in to camp content. This year, we’re really gonna focus on how people are getting business in 2024, how they’re nurturing their business development, and bringing in those new clients because I know that, the market’s changed, things have changed, and I know it’s a question on everybody’s mind. So, hopefully, we’re gonna answer it for you this season.

Molly Ruland:

So thank you for tuning in. Please, if you enjoyed this content, if you found it valuable, please share it on LinkedIn, tag us, Do all of the things. If you wanna give us a like on Itunes, that’s cool, but, you know, Itunes is not where it’s at. So thank you again. Have a great week, and we’ll see you on the next one. Alright. Alright. Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of Camp Content.

Molly Ruland:

This is Molly.

Matt Billman:

And this is Matt.

Molly Ruland:

And we are Hardcast Media AKA Camp Content, and we appreciate all of your support. If you found this content valuable, please comment on social media, LinkedIn, wherever you find us, and we’ll make sure to comment back.

Matt Billman:

And be sure to go on and subscribe and like on your favorite platforms, Spotify, iTunes, YouTube, you name it. Leave us that subscription. Leave us that good review.

Molly Ruland:

We’ll love you forever. So until next time. Be excellent to each other, and we’ll see you next week.

Produced by Heartcast Media.