Molly Ruland:

Alright. We’re alive. Welcome. We’re coming in hot with another episode of camp content. Today, we have Juul’s Dan. Super excited to talk to him about content marketing, email list, management, and what content marketing looks like in the world of chat GBT. So Jules has a track record of turning clicks into substantial revenue. He’s a secret weapon. His 2 year journey has reaped incredible results from a $247,000 launch. Without affiliates to a 150,000 plus coaching program success. His stem is Excuse me. His success stems from membership to a top Aussie copywriter propelling him to deliver astonishing ROI for clients. If you prioritize premium quality and results. Jules is your writer. So what does that all mean? We’re gonna dive right in. So thank you for joining us today on

Jules Dan

the show, Jules. It’s so good to be here, Molly. I’m super excited to get your audience excited about the new kid in town that’s a super popular chat GBT.

Molly Ruland:

It’s a spicy topic for sure. You know, it’s on everybody’s minds, and you can see every single tool that you use now, like, even linked like, hey. Do you want us to help write this post you’re about to crank out?

Jules Dan

So Interesting

Molly Ruland:

It’ll be interesting, yeah, to see where it all heads. So tell us a little bit about your journey. You’re originally from Australia. Is that correct?

Jules Dan

Originally from Australia, currently in Mexico, but it definitely didn’t start out this way. What it started was in that fateful month, March 2020, where I was a gym instructor for the last 6 years, and I was basically told Hey, you can’t come back into work because we’re closing everything. And I was basically made redundant. Couldn’t do shit. And, I still was battling with my parents being like, are you gonna get a real job? I’m like, and I was doing, like, a bit of Facebook ads on the side for local businesses and, what I said I did try, like, ebooks. I tried blogs, but I found that every time I tried something, there was some weird rule or, like, a slap or an algorithm change. I’m like, goddamn it. So that’s why I was like, I need to change to email because it’s one of the few things where the rules don’t change frequently. So they’re like, okay. Let me try to email copyright. That sounds like fun, and this was in March 2020 on Upwork, and I was writing for $5 an hour just to get experience. And I would like to listen to this podcast. It was called the Pete Godfrey Persuasion Show. He was an Australian copywriter. I would listen to the show. I would then take a lesson and apply to a mini client brief, and I would get a result. And then I would then use that little result and then get the next one. And then I finally had, not finally, but, at the time on Upwork, someone’s like, can you do regular work? I thought, great. Let me go to Pete and I say, hey. I used all your tips on your podcast to land this, I just got this redundancy package from the government. Can you copy your credits? Because I know you stopped talking about that 4 years ago, but can you restart it for me? And he was like, I’m only doing it because you actually did something with the material. So then Also, for excited thinking, like, I’m pretty top shit because I got these results. And then, I would hand in the copy to Pete and then he’d be like, this is fucking terrible. Like, start again. And that you would never sugarcoat stuff. So I’d have to, like, give back the copy three, four times and just repeat it. And it wasn’t till about 3 or 4 months into it. I started to get more momentum. The first big result was a 6 figure launch. I’m like, okay. And Pete’s like, don’t you don’t get your head big. Like, he would never give me compliments because he didn’t want to let my ego get to me. And I just followed this process where I’d get a good result and then go back to the next client. And then I’d get a brief for a VSL. I might Pete, what the hell do I do? He’s like, just calm down, mate. Just calm down. Like, these are the steps. And then, again, like, I’d have known you had to write a VSL and then we’d go and think about the strategy and then apply that and get a good result. And then from there, like, I had a whole bunch of repertoire from my fear of sales pages. Emails, and then I went down more into the list management because I think in the pitch that I sent to you was that I had this the daily change of my life was when a family member came from overseas, and they’ll basically like, they cut me down because I was celebrating a massive win on Facebook. Client was making 1,000,000 a month. You know, on a Facebook lead ad, and he’s like, why aren’t you that rich? And then I pause and reflect like, oh, crap. Like, it’s got a good point. I’m not doing well financially. I’m just doing project to project. I’ve got a really good portfolio, but I’m not doing well, like, my own business. And then that’s when I realized the secret was what my clients were doing well was the relationship they had with their list. And then that’s when I positioned myself as a list, master, list profit extractor, and then just went towards email list management because it’s a massive headache for businesses. They know they need to do it. It somehow becomes an afterthought And when they need money, it’s like, let’s just write to the list. And while it works a few times, it’s like, is it gonna work? Is that a long, long term strategy? Like, Probably not. So, positioned it a way that it would be, like, massive value for the people saying yes. And then Had to look back. Email management is a lot of fun. And how it relates to chat, JBT, I can just leave that with you, but, I’ve just done a bit of a word dump.

Molly Ruland:

You just did what? what? I’m sorry.

Matt Billman

Or a dump?

Jules Dan

No. It’s super helpful, though.

Molly Ruland:

I mean, Copywriting is a really hard skill, right, and a lot of people don’t know how to do it, right, because it’s not an inherent skill that you learn, and you don’t realize, how much psychology is behind all the things that make us wanna buy, like, especially if you’re just a consumer, you know, even if you’re a marketer that doesn’t make you a good copy right Like, those are very, very different skills for sure. So I saw, like, on your LinkedIn, well, first of all, let’s talk about Mexico . So how long have you been, moving around? Everybody uses this digital nomad, which I think is kinda ridiculous. I’m like, what’s the definition of a nomad? I’m not sure. Country, we’re really nailing it there. But, remote worker, global remote worker, whatever you wanna call it, but, you know, tell us a little bit about that journey real quick.

Jules Dan

So I was no man curious for a long time, but like I said, the financial position never let me do it until I switched to list management where it was an ongoing relationship with a client. It was, you know, not to face famine all the time. I could predict income better. And because it was I’d be so embedded in the business being like, I’m getting you great results. I’m like, okay. I need to see how many months this lasts. So I don’t feel like if I go overseas, the rug will get pulled under me. And in about, probably, about 6 months of doing that, then I’m like, okay. Let’s let’s go do this. I joined this program called remote year, which is like digital add on training wheels. Basically, it’s where you get put with a group of 20 other remote workers and, you go from 1 city each month to the next, and they give you they you pay a fee and they, look after the flights, the accommodation, the workspace, there’s a city representative who knows everything about the city from, like, food, culture, just you name it. So it’s just literally the easy button for digital nomad isms. It’s a great offer. And I’ve been doing that. The issue I found with it though is that everyone’s like Let’s go explore. Let’s go get drinks every day, like, midweek. And at the start, I was like, yeah, I just wanna do everything. And about 3 months in, I was like, man, I’m really just doing enough for quiet work, but I’m not doing enough on my own. Yeah. Because I’m kind of supposed to be working on it.

Matt Billman

I do this. Yeah.

Jules Dan

Right. So it was like, I barely worked, and then I did travel, but I didn’t do any, like, focused on building my list, building my audience, which I know it should be. And then that’s why I was like, okay. I need to sort of have a break from the group for 5 weeks. That’s why I’m here in Mexico. And I’m on this podcast. So, like, yeah. So trying to, I’ll try to do what my intention was, which is to go build my list. So, Mexico here, I’m in Puerto Rico Escondido. It’s really chill. It’s by the beach. It’s safe, in the workspace right now, great internet. So it’s just been a very good environment to just knuckle down.

Molly Ruland:

Right on. Yeah. I can relate. You know, I moved to Costa Rica two and a half years ago, and it was a little bit of an adjustment in the beginning to be like, okay. You’re not on vacation. Get back to your desk. This is you, you live here. You can’t act like this all the time, you know —

Jules Dan

Exactly.

Molly Ruland:

— simmer down.

Jules Dan

Exactly. What was your biggest distraction?

Molly Ruland:

I mean, well, everything, you know, moving to another country and and and everything is different. The language is different. The measurement system is different. You know, you know, money is different. So it was a little overwhelming, you know, setting up the internet, you know, in another language. You know, it’s a little different, like, not with a group and you know you’re leaving in a month, when you’re actually trying to, like, establish roots, it can definitely be very, over, you know, intimidating, right, and humbling, which which I honestly was like, you know, it’s probably really good that I have to think about what I say before it comes flying out of my mouth for once. Because I’m translating everything in poor Spanish. And so it’s really, like, chilled me out and really made me more intentional with the things I say, and I tend to speak less. And all of those are good things for me. Like, absolutely. You know? Mhmm. It’s a huge adjustment. So let’s talk about Okay. In the last few months, you’ve been rebuilding your list. And I saw on your LinkedIn, that you, you know, like, a quote from a client that said, only have a small list, less than 2000 people. And — Yeah. — with the 1 launch generated over 150,000 in sales. Okay. I’m not gonna lie. I’m super curious about that. So — Yeah.

Jules Dan

That was the first big one I told you about with pay.

Molly Ruland:

So how did somebody make $150,000 off of two thousand people? You know what I mean? What was the offer? What was she selling?

Jules Dan

Okay. So I think there’s a I. It’s actually great because I was writing some content about this for my YouTube and to break down the principles. So I got the thinking psychology behind it. So first off, Rebecca loves to give goodwill into the list, and she’s a good planner. So She’ll know, okay. So I’m only gonna launch twice per year. That’s the cadence that she set. I’m not gonna really promote more than that. Might do maybe occasionally on like a Facebook post, but the core business model for her was launching twice. So if you know that that’s your objective, then it’s easy to work backwards from there because it’s like, what do people need to believe in order to buy? Or make it super easy for this launch. So she already did, like, the legwork of knowing it’s twice a year. I can be prepared. I can create content ahead of time that maybe answers objections that bring on case studies or intertwine my personality. Some like people like me and stuff, for me, it was just it was kind of easy because she’d set that groundwork for me, but she’s like, I need help taking my ideas and I don’t wanna have to write the copy, can you just go do it? So then she’d done previous 60, 70 k launches, but then when we put in some of the launch principles, I happened to talk about that, then put in some, like, better copy. And then when you have Pete helping me with the strategy and, hey, maybe you should change this line to this line. That kind of helps too. And I learned a lot in that process. That’s how then we could double her previous launch.

Molly Ruland:

That’s amazing. So let’s talk about, let’s talk about chat chat GBT and how that all ties in because I’ve been using, like, Jasper for, like, over a year now, right, which is a great copywriting tool. And it is helpful. Right? And I was using another tool called surfer. And so I was, like, surfer SEO. And so what it does, it gives you, like, SEO weighted scores for content and, like, con, like, clusters of ideas and things to write about and all that. But if you follow their guidelines and you get the arrow into the green, you know, like the score high enough what you have is an article that makes no sense. It makes no sense at all. It repeats the same keyword seventy four times as per the recommendation when you read in, you’re like, what the hell are I even saying? I’m literally talking in circles. And, yes, this is a good SEO score, but anybody’s gonna get 4 paragraphs into this and be lost in her mind. You know what I mean? And so, you know, the chance to be T is really great. AI is really great, but it’s certainly not full proof. So let’s, you know, let’s talk about that a little bit. You know, Right. How do you navigate that with clients? Like, are you using chatbot with your copywriting, or how’s how all that works?

Jules Dan

Yeah. So it’s been a big part of it helping people understand the principles of good copy. And just so you listeners know, I’m gonna tell a little bit of a story about Facebook ads, but I’ll link it back because I know it’s a podcast about content and content marketing and warm organic leads through that, and I’ll make it all relevant for you guys. So the biggest problem I faced was when I was working with a client, one client, and he had a coaching program. And then I basically built the offer inside of that saying, I’ll critique your Facebook ads. Little did I know that coaching and critiquing ads for people who have no experience in writing copy is difficult to say the least. Like, people aren’t versed in the principles of copy. And instead of me banging my head against the wall saying stop making this mistake, change this again and again and get an ad grade copy every time. I created what will you? I’ll backtrack a bit. You said before Molly that people can get frustrated on the prompt, and then, like, you get a response and terrible we might go again. I had to push past that frustration for a week because I said if I don’t do this, then I’m gonna get replaced, basically. So then I basically created a system for Facebook ads to go from lead to booked call for these people and it wasn’t necessarily like pressing the button and then it gives you the thing. It’s like pressing the button and it gives you a chunk you might like. And then you might reiterate from there. So I like to think it was building blocks or Lego blocks because it’s never gonna give you every single thing. And doing this trial and error process and not just me writing a copy for myself, I was able to then have all these people who want their ads to protect. And I had them follow the system, and then we sort of got the base model and then, like, the base scripts And then we, like, tweaked it a little bit. I’m like, can you change this? Maybe take this out. And then the problem with that was, These people were so obsessed with leads that they had no nurture system in place like you would with a good content marketing system in place. This one dude generated 600 leads off there, like, $1500, but he had nothing in place to follow-up. So he was like, these leads are done. I’m like, well, maybe you didn’t have time to get back to them promptly because they just came in too quickly. The good news is you got 600 leads, so we can work with that. Before that, when you gave me his out and this sale all ties into content marketing and how we can make it relevant for your audience is that when I asked Mike or Mike, what did the pain points in your market? And then he wrote them down being like, not enough time, too busy with clients, marketing. I’m like, for fire. And this guy was in financial advisory, helping financial advisors or something like that. And I’ve never worked in that market. Normally, it’d be like a 2 hour deep dive call with a client. I’m like, I’m not gonna give this guy 2 hours because it just might, like, it’s not paid for or whatever. So I’m like, how do I get through this a chat to your team? And then I’m like, okay. Let’s reverse engineer the brief like I would with a client. Could you please give me, this is me writing to chat Tuesday. Could you please give me the top 10 daily frustrations that a financial advisory firm owner would have. We’ve got 10 here, and then I ask, what would be the single most annoying, most frustrating daily frustration out of these ten.

Matt Billman

And that

Jules Dan

said compliance. And then, like, explain why it’s compliance. And then it was, like, went into, like, all the pain points like paperwork, the stress of keeping up at night that you don’t know what’s gonna happen from, like, the IRS or something like that. And then I’m like, okay. I went down further. I’m like, can you write me a fictitious emotional diary entry following the AIDA writing style for the listeners that’s attention, interest, desire action. And then it gave me, like, a pretty good story. I’m not saying it’s like, I completely run with this.

Molly Ruland:

That’s

Jules Dan

okay. It’s like we don’t have to necessarily run with this. But if it’s given us an idea for this story, maybe we could use it, maybe we could try and fill in the blanks with a current client, or maybe we can try and fill in our own story because it’s given us this idea. So before, like I said, I wouldn’t necessarily use it as a press a button and copy for you. I’d use it as a building block Lego pieces to help build more of the, you know, scaffolding for your marketing plan. And by just going, what are the top 10 daily frustrations in my market is a really good place to start.

Molly Ruland:

That’s brilliant. I’m about to, I gotta go. I gotta go and chat with GPT and do some research. Sorry. I interrupted you.

Matt Billman

It’s a wild system.

Jules Dan

But were

Matt Billman

Are there a lot of learning curves for you when you first started using chat GPT? Because, obviously, you’re not just gonna throw everything into it and kinda hope for the best. Would you, like, kinda test a few things, like hypothetical situations and just kinda see where it was taking you.

Jules Dan

In which context for writing the ad?

Matt Billman

Yeah. Just kind of an overview of all of it. Because like I said, you know, the first time you use chat gpt, you know, I’m just gonna be like, yeah, I’m just gonna throw everything in here and just hope for the best and see what it does. Like, was there a good learning curve for you in terms of, like, testing and see what it actually is giving you until you know, because obviously I use it a good bit too. And it’s, it starts to learn you once you do those separate tabs and everything and learn what you’re trying to do and kind of generates its mind of its own. And

Jules Dan

I’m still learning, but there’s a few things that I’ve learned along the way which help not make me want to face plant into the ground, basically. So, one thing I found is that if you’re trying to train it, if you’re trying to train it to sound like you. Maybe you’ve heard before. You could be like, here’s an email that’s trying to promote the podcast. These are podcast emails. Remember this. Analyze it, style of tone of voice. And you might give it some emails. This is part 1. This is part 2. This is part annual. I might even say this is an advanced ship. I learned that you might attach a name to it, but like, this is Matt. And so every single time it knows that in this thread, it’s Matt. And it’s also given me the analysis of when I said Matt writes in conversational, it’s personal, and he likes to be informal with some witty jokes. It’s giving me that language. So then when it gives me garbage, instead of being like, oh, I’ve got the wrong prompts, what I found was what happened to writing like Matt. Matt writes like, word you just gave me, word you just gave me, word you just gave me, and it’s gonna give you a more refined response. It’s not gonna be perfect again, and it’s not gonna replace you, but instead of being like, oh, it’s the prompt. Like, maybe it just needs to be reminded of what the model is.

Molly Ruland:

Interesting. Because, yeah, like, on Jasper, they have the tone of the brand voice now, you know, and so you give it, like, previous writing samples, and it’s funny because it writes like me now. And I’m like, god, I sound like a Canadian. But that’s exactly how I write. Like, I definitely am, like, full of jokes and, like, a lot of sarcasm in my content and misspelled words, like, y’all alert, you know, things like that, you know, and it totally, the, you know, it it puts too many exclamation points into things, even, like, I don’t use that many information points, but the rest of it is pretty spot on. It’s kinda crazy how quickly I learned how to talk. Like, Pretty crazy.

Jules Dan

That’s cool. That’s cool.

Molly Ruland:

Yeah. Yeah. So let’s talk about, you have on your notes here that you have combined hold on. Where is it? You have combined sales, deliverability, and ninja automation, and I am a huge fan of automation. So let’s talk about how you’re using automation and your service with your clients.

Jules Dan

Okay. So, a good business needs to have roughly 4 to 5 things in order to function, acquisition, conversion, then you need fulfillment, what I’d that’s the part where everyone trips up on. Everyone gets really seduced by the first 2. And you can definitely use email on these parts. And then there’s also email for fulfillment, and then you can also use email for ascension. And so those are the 4 things. Acquisition, conversion, fulfillment, essential. And then if you wanna say retention, but Dan Kenny would say, Ascension’s the best retention model. So 4 or 5 is the best. Ascension is when you wake up. It’s when you basically sell someone. So you take someone from one level. So, like, if you are sorry. What were you gonna say?

Molly Ruland:

No. Go ahead. I was

Jules Dan

gonna say, if if you spent, like, 10 $1000 for a dentist to fix up everything and they know all the little ins and outs of your your mouth, your problem, your case, if someone down the end, let’s just say it’s been 2 years, if someone down the road offered, like, a much cheaper cleaning or whatever, And also this, like, a follow-up for your mouth, would you go there knowing that they have to explain everything, getting that the other dentists has all the other things and know you very well. It’s like an inconvenience. Right? So that pain of changing or that pain of, like, disconnecting from that relationship is so great. That’s why extension is so good. And you can facilitate that with email. There’s heaps of different sequences where you can go down. So I think in terms of acquisition conversion, which is the most sexy, we can start with that one.

Molly Ruland:

Right on. Yeah, I’ve definitely heard of, like, the order bump and all that where you where people are already, comfortable with you, working with you. So why to spend a little bit more. So what is working with you look like, Jules? Like, how to , what does it cost? How long does it take? Who’s your ideal client, you know, what do you, what are you looking for?

Jules Dan

Okay. Cool. So what I used to do was think that everyone has a one size fits all list which is not necessarily the case. And sometimes people would just rather go do it themselves and then, you know, I’d be lost there. So what I’ve now introduced is to do, what I like to call an email profits road map. And on the profits road map, we sort of figure out those 4 profit power leavers that I’ll swing out. Acquisition, conversion, fulfillment, and then Ascension. Like, how do we fit email into all of these? And it’s looking at the business owner’s list and saying like, what are you doing well right now in these four things? And then what’s sort of missing? Where do you like, what’s your end objective? Are you trying to do a big launch this quarter? Are you just trying to sell a product into daily emails? Like, what is missing from the strategy? That’s the first part. And then the second part is figuring out, okay. So who do you wanna attract and who do you wanna repel? So that’s the personality style emails and pulling that out of people, which I call the profit persona. I would normally do that when I would onboard people, but I thought someone just wants to schedule it themselves and they can get a full report of how this would work for themselves. And then the final part is that the ninja stuff we’re talking about before, like, What’s the deliverability like? Are your emails sending in spam? Are they going to Gmail and the primary tab? Let’s look at that, and then I can give you some actual steps. And then at the end of it, I give them this action plan for 90 days, 3 months. Like, this is what you need to achieve, what you wanna do, here are the steps, Here’s a powerful persona. Here’s all the emails and content you need leading up to that. You can go do it yourself. Or if you like, you know, we can then continue this plan and I can implement it for you. And that’s basically the first step of the journey.

Matt Billman

There it is. So, like, the biggest thing is smiling on mute, but, obviously, the biggest thing with everybody is they’re, like, kinda terrified. It’s like, hey. I was gonna take my job. What are we gonna do? Everybody’s gonna lose their job. So, I mean, there’s obviously benefits, doubts. What are kind of the biggest dangers doubts that you potentially could see of it as a whole, and that could even come in and infect you. They might have you a little worried.

Jules Dan

For AI coming. Okay. Interesting. It’s definitely — You gotta

Matt Billman

do one thing that you’re kinda like, oh, what if this happens? Might kinda mess me up a little or something. I don’t know. Good. Good.

Jules Dan

In terms of, in the marketing space and in my world, or just as well? We’ll see both. Yeah. I’m interested because chat JBT has it draws from a lot of past experience, for how to write stuff. I’m interested and for the everyday sort of people who just want, like, seem to be a great copy just to have something. Like, at what point is everyone gonna be like, oh, this is from chat. We tell you it all sounds the same and then how do we innovate from there? That’s why I sort of think there’s always gonna be a space for people who want a really good copy to think outside the box, who know how to maybe split tests when the chativity version fails, like, what do you do as a backup? There’s that, but It’s just going to be a big cesspit of the same. And this is the other thing. Okay. I think this is the biggest one. It doesn’t really have to do with copy. It has to do with the authenticity of testimonials. I don’t know how we’re gonna monitor how a video testimonial is real if we can create deep fakes and maybe someone creates, like, an authenticated, like, badge, which says this is a real testimonial then how do we know someone’s just not gonna create a counter software to to, like, counter that and just create a deep fake again? So I think authenticity with proof and testimonials is gonna be very interesting in the next 5 years or so.

Molly Ruland:

That’s a really good point. I think, you know, we talk a lot about authenticity with the rise of chat GBT and how podcasting is still a great opportunity because it’s, like, can’t you can’t fake the funk with a podcast, like, just as real people having a real conversation. And so it might prompt somebody to say, oh, I like Jules. I like his vibe. Like, I wanna work with him. And so you, you know, you can’t do that with AI no matter how well the post is written. It’s just not gonna replace that. But when it comes to testimonials, a 2 minute video, that would be really easy to fabricate, you know, and be like, Phil Gates is like, my line rolling is the best. You know, like, in fact, I gotta go. I gotta get on deepfake.com. But, yeah, I mean, it’s pretty scary because even there’s, like, a company called Descript and then they are a podcast editing software. Right? But they, — and

Jules Dan

call you boys.

Molly Ruland:

— fake the funk with them, and that is wild to me. Now you can tell that it’s fake, but, you know, these programs are improving every 10 seconds. So it’s just a matter of time before it’s like —

Jules Dan

He’s my interview. He’s my interview. Like you said, with this prominent person. And because they’re so big, they’ll have no idea that you’re even published this.

Molly Ruland:

Like, hanging out with Joe Rogan. Although, probably wouldn’t be a good marketing plan these days. People don’t seem to like him, but, yeah, I mean, yeah, it is pretty crazy. I didn’t really think about that, but I think, I mean, it’s just that we’re just in that age where we’re gonna have to question everything, which honestly might be good considering where we’ve gone for the last few years with a lot of misinformation. I think that it’s gonna only get worse with chat GPT, but maybe it’ll , you know, armor people a little bit better to start questioning everything. Like, question everything. It doesn’t matter what side of whatever debate you’re on. Question all of it because all of it could be fake. And I think we need to head there as a society because too many people are believing things that are just not true, you know, at all.

Jules Dan

Yep. 1

Molly Ruland:

— This could — One can only hope. You know?

Jules Dan

It seems if, like, if you can fake a testimonial, then people can, like, weaponize content to make people believe a certain way. I don’t know. It’s another rabbit hole, but, yeah.

Molly Ruland:

Yeah. Or, you know, with the whole, like, cancel culture, like, somebody could say that I said something I didn’t and your business didn’t shut down overnight. And you’re like, I didn’t even say a bunch of other offensive stuff. Where were you guys for that? But I didn’t say this one, you know. Because we’re all imperfect humans. You know, I was thinking about some friends of mine from grade school and the jokes we used to make with each other. And I’m like, thank, nobody knows about that because people would shut me down. You know? We were just kids being kids with each other, but, you know, it’s a whole different world now. So, alright. So, Jules, how can people mind you, do you have an offer right now? Is there something in particular you’d like to share with our audience before we head out?

Jules Dan

Cool. So if you guys are interested, I know it’s the content pass, podcast. If you’re interested to talk to hear about the principles I talk about, from an ad to a booked call, using what I call the 4 hour GPT cash campaign, you can definitely apply those principles to writing content. It’s just got the whole mix from ad to email, whatever. So you can go find that at, jeepjewelstand.comforward/gpt gift, and that’s my gift to you guys. Listeners.

Molly Ruland:

That’s amazing. Well, I’m gonna check it out. You know, I’ve been doing a lot more, managing my email list, and I’ve been pretty consistent with my newsletter.

Jules Dan

Oh, because

Molly Ruland:

on LinkedIn, you know, so I’m like killing it. Well, you know, I’m old, Juul’s. I know I don’t know a good day over 26, but you know, don’t be fooled by the blur on the camera. You know, in my day, a newsletter was like, you have 5 components. It was an update. It was a recipe. It was pictures from the local pumpkin patch. You know, it was like, you had to have, like, all these elements in it. Yeah. And so for a lot of people, my age and brought me a little younger, feel like they have to do so much for a newsletter. And once I realized I just need to talk, I just need to talk about something I care about, and it doesn’t have to be 17 paragraphs long. Like, surfers trying to tell me it does. You know? Yeah. Like — Yeah. — I can just write a 3 paragraph 1 or a 6, depending on how long it takes me to say what it is I wanna say, and it becomes a lot less cumbersome and a lot easier to manage, but I don’t know if it’s effective. Right? So I’m curious. I’m gonna follow your gift lead and I’m gonna check it out. I’m sure I’ll be talking to you again sooner than later because what you’re doing makes a whole lot of sense to me. And, you know, I think we live in an age where it’s like, more is more. And it’s like, not not always, you know, especially with podcasting. Right? Like, we swim a little upstream. We believe that, you know, identify people you wanna do business with and interview them. Identify 10 people, do 10 episodes, do them really well, nurture the relationship, then you get the SEO and the content, but it’s really about the relationship. So instead of doing a hundred episodes this year and just looking for the next person to put in the seat, why don’t you just interview the people you wanna do business with? You know, less is less. You know, like, going viral on TikTok doesn’t mean discovery calls. Going viral on the internet, having a LinkedIn post with 1700 comments does not translate into discovery calls and close deals. So — Exactly. I

Jules Dan

really resonate with that message of less is more like, I’ve seen this with the people with the small lists. Other ones who get the biggest results are the ones who are okay. We’re saying no, who have play, like, systems in place to make sure that they repel everyone that there’s a double opt in. It’s hard to get in that they’re aware that maybe they’re gonna be talking about this topic And they’re always outperforming. I’ve seen people with a $40,000 $40,000 40,000 person list. I remember I did a webinar launch for that person and You know, it just didn’t do as good compared to the Rebecca was 2000, like, what gives? So it’s just always like you said, less is more.

Molly Ruland:

Less is more. And we’re really in this society of just like more and more and more. And you’re like, well, what about the people you interviewed last week? Did you follow them? Did you tell them that their podcast is live? Did you create graphics for them? Did you ask for a meeting? Like, why did you interview them in the first place? And people are like, Oh, yeah. Because it’s this whole, like, more, more, more, you know, like, more, you know, impressions are better and more, you know, views are better, but you know, to me, more closed deals is better. And a lot of times when you have a small list, they act like they’re choosing to get your content. Right? You know? So that makes it different. So, actually, before we go, how do you feel about the LinkedIn newsletter? Cause I feel like that thing is on fire. Are you spending any time with LinkedIn newsletters?

Jules Dan

I, to be fair, Molly, I stopped doing LinkedIn posts, I think a year ago. I like to call them some re so forgive my, volginess. I like to call most content booty call content because it’s fine. You stick around for a little bit. But then it goes away and you never hear from it again. So then that’s why I switched to YouTube because I’m like, I can create this once and it keeps working for me. So I stopped using YouTube. Sorry. I stopped LinkedIn a while ago, but could you tell me what you found to be most insightful with LinkedIn newsletters? — came here.

Molly Ruland:

Well, you know, I’ve got, like, 5000 followers or so. I think, yeah, you and I are about the same, like, with followers and, you know, people with connections whatever the whole thing is. Right? And, you know, when I I I’ve, you know, I’m not a huge fan of LinkedIn because, you know, a couple summers ago when processes were happening and really brought out a lot of people’s terrible bleeps about things. So I sort of divested from LinkedIn for a long time. But I went back recently and started a newsletter, and I started it. And by the end of the day, I had 500 subscribers.

Jules Dan

Really? What?

Molly Ruland:

Yeah. And so I was like, what the heck is going on here? Because, like, we have an active campaign and, like, the open rate, the visibility, the comments, the engagement, everything is off the charts. So we’re, like, over a 1000 subscribers now.

Jules Dan

Oh, yeah. What’s your total?

Molly Ruland:

And, yeah, I’ll I’ll send it to you on LinkedIn. And it’s just it’s called postcards from the Edge, and it’s just like, you know, a little blurb about like, today’s went out and I said, downloads don’t matter. Like, prove me wrong. Like, down loans don’t meet generate revenue. Like, closed deals do. Relationships not downloads. And so with our clients, we don’t care if you get 10 downloads or 10,000,000 because you’re focusing on who you’re interviewing and forging that relationship. And if you get downloads, that’s just That’s great. That’s extra icing on the cake. You know what I’m saying? It’s an extra shot and your margarita, but it’s not, you know, driving the whole train. Right? You know what I mean? So what it is is the relationships. And so I just do little blurbs, you know, or, hey, this is what’s going on in the podcast industry, and here’s how I feel about it. I keep them short and sweet. Usually, if I’m driving down the road or when I have that idea, I’ll just transcribe it into my phone and then tighten it up and send it to my assistant, and she’ll put it out. But, I’m getting discovery calls off, and I’m getting, you know, inbound requests for meetings from it for sure. And so as much as I don’t like LinkedIn, the newsletter is kinda popping. You know?

Jules Dan

I have so many questions.

Molly Ruland:

I mean —

Jules Dan

I have so many questions.

Molly Ruland:

Who would have thought? Right? You know what I mean? And it’s the same newsletter that’s going out to, like, our campaign list, so it’s really not a big deal for me to copy and paste it into LinkedIn. You know what I mean?

Jules Dan

Yeah. Yeah.

Molly Ruland:

So it’s like the same work You know? But, yeah, I I, you know, we’ll have to talk about that more offline because I’m like, you know, I I I started it and then, like, I went back a half hour later and I hit fresh, and I had 25 subscribers. And I thought, oh, they might just start you with 25, you know, like, here you go. Here’s 25. And then, like, a few hours later, I hit refresh and it was, like, a 100 for, like, an hour later, I refreshed. It was, like, a 149. And I was like, what the heck is going on? Yeah. 500 subscribers from the first newsletter put out. And what I like about it, you know, I know we’re going over our time here, but it sends a notification on LinkedIn you know, to everybody saying, hey, Molly, just put out a newsletter. And it sends an email that goes into the inbox, not into promotion or spam. It says Molly just put out a news item and you can read it in the email, or you can go to LinkedIn and watch it. So the delivery rate is considerably higher than, like, an active campaign, because I think a lot of those are going into, god, only knows, per email purgatory. You know? So so, yeah, well, maybe that’ll be part 2. We’ll have you back. We’ll do a little LinkedIn newsletter research, but I’m curious to know what, you know, your thoughts on that because I just can’t deny how much you need.

Jules Dan

I would I would love to learn more and come back to you with, some, you know, data and, like, my 2¢ after looking at because what you’re saying is true, then it’s an excellent second touch on top of email, which is when you’re still using email content, and it’s like, my my mind as well is like, how you talk between the 2? Do you slowly take people from LinkedIn 1 onto your real list? What Ben Settle might do is where you put out older content on LinkedIn and then on the list is where it’s more current and timely.

Molly Ruland:

Yeah. I don’t know. That’s a good thing to think about, right, and strategize about it because I definitely don’t have a strategy right now, and I’m all about strategy. So that’s why I’m pretty sure you’re gonna hear for me. But, —

Jules Dan

Yeah. I’m definitely gonna be looking into this for sure. Thank you for being

Molly Ruland:

a while. We’ll definitely do a part too. When when you’ve done your research, we’ll schedule again, and and we’ll talk do a whole episode about the LinkedIn newsletter pros and cons and —

Jules Dan

Mhmm.

Molly Ruland:

— how to make it work. But, well, Julius, thank you so much for your show today. It was really fun chatting with you. And if you find yourself nomading your way over to Costa Rica, make sure you hit me up. And, I can hook you up for some cool places to stay.

Jules Dan

Molly, Matt, it’s been a pleasure. Thank you so much, and I hope your audience has taken away something actionable from chat to be tee today.

Molly Ruland:

Absolutely. Thank you..