Every Lawyer Should Have One of These with Robert Ingalls

Hey there legal eagles! Thinking of starting a podcast to connect with your clients? Look no further! We chatted with Robert Ingalls of Lawpods about how hearing your favorite podcaster’s voice creates trust with your audience. But don’t think you can skimp on equipment and editing – you gotta have all the right ingredients to produce a delectable podcast cake. We also talked how your podcast can “sell time” to your listeners – perfect for busy bees who want to learn while on-the-go. And as a lawyer, a podcast can showcase your expertise while answering common questions. So, invest in your brand and grow your lawfirm by starting a podcast today! Subscribe for more useful nuggets of wisdom. Keep soaring! (Who writes this stuff? Oh yeah, Molly)

[00:00:00] Start
[00:03:02] Lawyer turned marketer: A journey to fulfillment
[00:04:54] “From Overwhelmed Lawyer to Podcast Editor Success”
[00:10:21] “Meetup for Life-Changing Influence of Tom Billyou”
[00:12:00] “How Podcast Content Can Build Trust Faster”
[00:16:00] “Why Your Voice Sounds Different On Recordings”
[00:19:03] “Podcasting: The New Age of Convenience Entertainment”
[00:22:00] “Podcasters building trust through valuable content”
[00:23:48] “Maximizing Your Podcast Content: A Complete Guide”
[00:28:55] “Starting a Podcast? Here’s What You Need!”
[00:32:56] “Maximizing Attorney Podcast ROI: Targeting Referral Sources”

Topics Covered:

  • Personal Experiences with Podcasters
  • The Importance of Quality Podcasting
  • How Podcasting Empowers People to Make Positive Change
  • Starting a Podcast: It Doesn’t Have to Be Perfect
  • The Business of Podcasting for Lawyers
  • The Value of Podcasting for Building Brand Recognition
  • Personal Growth Through Podcasting
  • How Podcasting Sells Time
  • Podcasting Can Help Build Know and Trust with Clients
  • The Value and Misconceptions of Podcasting

Robert Ingalls

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertingalls
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawpods
Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/lawpods
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawpods

Book a call with Molly: https://calendly.com/mollyruland/discovery

Molly Ruland: CEO & Founder ‌
Matt Billman: Operations Manager

Sponsored by : Heartcast Media


Molly: What up? What up? Coming in hot on another episode of Camp Content, I am super excited for my guest today, Robert Ingalls, the founder, and CEO of Lawpods.com. Robert Ingalls practices that well, first of all, he hails from the great state of North Carolina. He has lived all over, but he’s never left North Carolina. I mean, he’s traveled, but he’s never lived anywhere else. And Robert practiced law for six to seven years before pivoting and opening up Law Pods, which is a branded podcast production company that is solely focused on working with lawyers. So he is an expert in all things Law Pods and how you can use the podcast to increase revenue in your lawyer business. I met Robert through a mutual friend, Mike. Shout out to Mike. And we have actually been in a Mastermind for the last year and a couple of months now. So we hang out every Wednesday. I spend more time with Robert than probably anyone else, to be honest, consistently. And I consider him a good friend and just a wealth of knowledge. What he’s doing with his company and the work he’s doing with the lawyers and all of his clients is really impressive. So without further ado, welcome to the show, man. How are you doing?


Robert: It is such an honor to be here.


Molly: I’m well, wow, that is quite the podcast boys you just hit me with.


Robert: And I’m a little under the weather, so I’ve even got like, the deeper Berry White going, oh, you’re killing it, man.


Molly: You’re killing it. That’s a good look. I’m going to move my thing so I can look right at you. Well, dude, it’s really awesome to have you here today. I’m excited to chat with you. You’re super branded out. You got the jersey, you got the wall. You’re all in, man. You’re all in.


Robert: Yeah, I had those letters on the wall. I owned them for like six months. I was like, I need to get these on the wall. And then I was moving. So I was like, well, I’m about to move in a few months. Now I can’t. And so then now I’m finally here. I have a proper studio. And I was like, I got to get these things up. I had to spray paint them the right color. I’m pretty artsy.


Molly: Well, they’re killing it, man. I love it. I’m like, man, I really got to work on my backdrop. I need to darken it up somehow. But one day at a time, what can I say? So as you know, Cam content is all about content marketing and how people use that in different ways for their business or other people’s business. And so I’m excited to chat with you very specifically about podcasting and attorneys and how all of that comes together. I think a lot of people immediately say lawyers are boring and who would want to listen to that podcast? But I think that while that might be true for some attorneys, but not all. And they could be an excellent driver of revenue and relationships and networking and opportunities. So what made you want to make that shift from being an attorney to producing podcasts for attorneys?


Robert: Oh, we do not have enough time for that story today. But the short version is I was practicing law and I was profoundly unhappy in that career. I didn’t really realize it’s one of those things where you don’t realize how bad something is while you’re in it. Not until it’s gone do you realize how heavy it actually was. You take the weight off your back and you go, holy shit, that was a lot. But it also builds over a period of years. You kind of normalize anything. And my mental health was suffering and I couldn’t figure out how to make any money which makes all of those problems exacerbated. And I had a small firm with a handful of employees and just struggling along, working so much and making so little with so much stress. And I was doing all the marketing in the firm because I had more time than I had money, I guess, even though I didn’t have much of either. And I was learning PPC and SEO and email marketing. And at one point, my wife the big moment that sent me in this direction was my wife approached me not long after we got married and said, I want to have a baby. And that is for most people. They’re like, well, yeah, it’s your wife. Of course, they say that, right? But when we got married, we were like, well, we don’t even know if we want to have children. And it wasn’t that I didn’t want to, it was more like I felt like it was like future guy’s problem. And at that moment, it became like today’s guy’s problem. Like, next year someone is going to be living here and screaming at me and needing lots of money that I.


Molly: Don’t have, and it’s not me.


Robert: And that sent me spiraling a little bit. And I said, what I’m doing now is not going to work for what my future needs to look like because I don’t have any money. I’m really overwhelmed. Like, I cannot add more stress to my life at the moment. And so I sat down and made a list. The top of that list was money. For as much as people like to talk about money, not having any creates a lot of problems, and having some solves a lot of problems. So I sat down and I read a money book. The money book was excellent. The author had a leadership book as well. So I said, well, hell, I’m having problems with leadership in my office too. I’ll read that and that book said, you should listen to our podcast. And this is August, September of. And I’d never listened to a podcast before. And so I opened my Player and listened to the podcast’s first episode. It really wasn’t for me. That podcast wasn’t for me, but I was in the app. So I just typed Office because I was listening to something about Office leadership. And I was like, office. I’ll type office leadership, something like that. And I found another podcast, and it was called Awesome Office. It’s now defunct, but it was a great podcast. And the very first guest, it was a two-part episode, was a guy named Tom Billyu, whose name may be familiar to Molly Ruland And it was an incredible moment in my life because I’m listening to this and this guy just his words were hitting me like a ton of bricks. And it’s strange because if you really boil down the message from both of those episodes together, the message really was you can do anything you want in your life and how many times you’ve been told that you can be anything you want. But at that moment, I believed him. I said I just felt like I had done pre-law stuff, gone to law school, been practicing law for years at this point, and like, I’m invested here. This is who I am. This is my career. This is what I do. And the idea of just throwing it all down, I just never considered it. And at that moment, I said, maybe I don’t have to do this. And it sent me on this amazing journey. It was kind of like having just a seizure and going, I don’t have to. Everything can change. And I just dove right into personal development in a really profound way. Like, started listening to every book I could, every little life hack idea, like, how can I improve? How can I be better? Which was amazing. And I’m still very involved in trying to understand every day, how can I be better when I go to bed than I was when I woke up. And that’s where it started. days after listening to that podcast with Tom Billy. I own the mic I’m talking into now, so go big or go home, right? But I just started playing around in my spare bedroom at night after work and learning how to use a mixer and make a mix minus all those things you had to do before the broadcaster came out, and I just fell in love with it. I started recording in my law office. I started a podcast out of my law office. And eventually, somebody in the law community saw me doing stuff and they said, hey, will you help us make a podcast? That was client number one. And it went from there and allowed me to not practice law and have my own job where I work from home and does something I just really enjoy. So if you can believe it, that’s the short story.


Molly: It’s probably like, why the universe really just paired us up together. There’s just no doubt in my mind because hearing you tell that story, reminds me of, no. or, I think, when I had four Airbnb and a three-story building. And I was just like I was pouring from an empty cup beyond. And I was cleaning these airbnbs myself because I couldn’t rely on anybody else to do it and run the business. And I was literally dying. And I was listening to a podcast with Tom Billyue and I just started listening to more of them. And I’ll never forget I had the exact same moment. I was literally like sweeping the bathroom of one of the airbnbs upstairs or sweeping the living room. And he said the greatest mistake you can make in business is your greatest success always comes after your greatest failure. And you don’t have to keep doing this. The mistake people make is to keep doing it. And I literally stopped dead in my tracks. And I had a multimedia company that I owned for years. I had employees and all these people relying on me. And I just stopped at that moment and realized I don’t have to keep doing this. And I stopped. And that was a huge evolution point for me, too. So it’s really crazy that we literally had the same AHA moment with Tim Bilyeu. I mean, I knew we both loved Tom, but kind of crazy.


Robert: Yeah. There should be a meet-up of people whose lives were profoundly changed by Tim Bilyeu. Because when I got into him, he was still at Quest Nutrition, and he had a show called Inside Quest, and it was really personal development, and he had this whole thing, and I’m sure he still says it, but his things, like, my goal in life is to pull as many people out of the Matrix as I can. And that’s kind of how I felt like he did. He whispered in my ear and said, you don’t have to do this. You can do a different thing. And it changed the course of my life. Yeah, there are probably a lot of people out there that have a similar story.


Molly: I know. And it’s unfortunate because Tom Billy kind of drifted into the anti-vax conspiracy lane. I don’t really watch him anymore, but like, dude, he killed it. He was there when I needed him to be. So if he’s saying offensive stuff now, don’t come at me.


Robert: Yeah, whatever. I don’t even care. It’s kind of like my parents, they believe some wild shit, but I still love them. They still did some really good stuff for me and I’m not going to forget that.


Molly: Exactly. You know what? Shout out to your parents and Tom Billy.


Robert: People are complicated.


Molly: Hey, man, this is why we get along, man. What a good way to look at it all. So let’s talk back into this specifically. So I’m sure a lot of people are like, what do lawyers talk about in their cases? I’m sure you get that a lot too. People come to you and they’re like, what am I going to talk about? I’m interested, but what am I going to talk about? So how do you handle those objections?


Robert: I love that question. I posted a video on LinkedIn this morning that said, I think the first part of what I wrote in the caption was, what am I going to talk about on my podcast? That’s the question I get so frequently, and it has the easiest answer. And for most lawyers, you’re going to talk about the things that your clients or your prospects want to know, and that’s okay. Well, what is that? You tell me. But at the end of the time, I also know what they want to know. But you know what they want to know because you’ve been in every consult, and you’ve heard every question a thousand different ways. You know exactly what people want to know. It’s what they call your law office and ask. It’s what they ask you in the consultation. It’s what they’re typing into Google when they find you when they find your competitors. It’s what they’re asking before mediation. It’s what they’re asking before trial. There is more content that you can create than probably years you have left on this earth. There is just an unlimited amount of things and different angles that we can approach with, and that’s the kind of content we want to make. Because when people land on your site, even a warm referral frequently will go to your website first. Now, they hear, this is the person I would call. Okay, cool. They look you up first. It’s easy to vet somebody. Why not take that extra second? And they go, they see your reviews, and then they go to your website, and they probably have a handful of questions. And that is where podcast content shines: those questions that are most frequently asked are there in short little chunks in audio format, so they can just press play. You’re not asking them to hang out on your website for minutes and read something or watch something you’re saying, would you like to know the answer to this? Press playing and keep living your life. And that way that person gets an opportunity to vet you and understand a little about who you are. Get to know your personality a little bit, because I think that’s incredibly important, especially for a lawyer. If you’re in the type of relationship with someone where you might be dealing with them for years, getting to know who they are a little bit before you decide whether you even want to set an appointment with them, I think is important because my personality isn’t for everybody. I have had clients when I was a lawyer that I wish we got to know each other better because we were not a good fit. And then we spent years together, and I know both of us were like, I wish we could just cut and run on this. Right? And so getting to know a little bit about who that person is is very helpful. And then if they do like you, that podcast content allows you to build that know, like, and trust. They get to know you a little bit, they get to know your sense of humor, and they start to feel like they like you a little bit, and then you establish that you know what you’re talking about. I’ve been here before. I know what you’re facing. I’ve held hands with a lot of people as they cross this chasm that you’re about to cross. And I’m going to make this more comfortable because what you want to do with that prospect as you’re nurturing that lead, you want to make them feel good. You want to make them feel better, comfortable, like, okay, I can put this off on somebody else who knows what they’re doing. And that feeling that you can create with somebody, that’s how you’re going to convert people


Molly: Straight up!  Another reason why everybody should buy a microphone, even if you don’t have a podcast, is because if you’re talking to people on Zoom calls and your voice sounds better, it also makes you more welcoming and trustworthy. It makes you want to listen. Absolutely person right? And a little off-topic there.


Robert: No, but you’re right. I think it matters. When you’re creating content, create it in a way that whether it’s content or whether you’re talking directly to somebody, you’re able to elevate the building of trust in that relationship. People will always say, I hate the sound of my own voice.


Molly: Right?


Robert: Most of the time, people are saying that because they’ve never actually heard their own voice the way it sounds to us. When I hear someone talk, when I hear my wife speak to me, it sounds one way. When I hear her talk on a voicemail, it sounds different. And that’s how most people hear their voice. They hear it on an answering machine. I’m dating myself. But they hear it on their voicemail. They hear it on a Zoom call that’s been recorded, and the highs and low frequencies, and I’m certainly not an audio engineer by any stretch, but there’s a lot of frequencies in your voice that are getting cut out. So when you’re hearing it back, you’re hearing a very different version of your voice. But when you hear your voice into a good microphone because that’s what my clients will tell me. We’ll record an episode together, and they’ll say, that it sounded a lot better than I thought it was going to because a good microphone gets all of it. So when you hear yourself, it sounds a lot more like the way you sound to yourself in your head.


Molly: Exactly.


Robert: I love listening to my own voice. Now, I don’t know what that says about me, but I love you for that when I’m stressed out, I have podcast episodes sometimes that I go listen to, that I like, and that are just comforting.


Molly: You’re hilarious. I love that. I mean, whatever works for you. Self-awareness is key. If it works well, sometimes I’ll start.


Robert: Doubting myself and I know there’s a handful of episodes that I’ve done that I’ll go listen to and I’ll be like, that dude knows exactly what he’s talking about. That’s exactly what I would have said if I’d gotten asked that question.


Molly: You’re like, I did. I mean, I hear that because I listen to all of our podcast episodes too, just so that I can improve. Like a couple of episodes ago, I interviewed Laura from Shore and I talked the whole time, well, whatever, you can’t win them all. You got to improve. But sometimes it’s like, oh God, I wish I didn’t say this word so much or whatever, but for the most part it is. It’s like, you know what, that’s not terrible. I don’t hate that. That’s okay. And I think that’s important to build a little bit of that confidence. But back to building that, like know and trust. I mean, having that nice soft voice, hearing things, solving problems, creating solutions. As you said, people are going to come up with their decision about you long before they actually hire you and you’re going to spend years with them. I think that’s such a relevant point that a lot of people don’t consider because most lifespans for people’s clients are not years you would hope on some level. But a lot of people don’t offer services that are multi-year either. So I think it’s really important. So one of the things I’m sure that you also get asked a lot is why a podcast? I have social media. I need to write and I need to do blog posts and I do all these other things. How is a podcast? Because I think a lot of people think it is like some guy in his basement editing it and it’s on some nerd platform that nobody knows about. And it’s like, well, why would I spend my money on a podcast when I have all these other things? So how do you handle that?


Robert: Sure, people in general, want the newest thing to not work. It’s going to pass by. It’s a fad. I don’t need to be on TikTok. And I’m not saying you should be, but that’s the mentality. In the s, lawyers and even well into the s, there were lawyers that just didn’t need a website. We don’t need a website. That’s not how we get business. We do referrals, we do word of mouth. And that’s a really silly idea now. I mean, there are a lot of lawyers who kind of lost their retirement because they were planning on having a firm that they could sell and I’ve talked to a number of these people who thought they were building a firm because that used to be the way that attorneys could do things. They could build this client base in this town, and then the name of the firm would mean something. They could sell it, and I’m sure there are plenty of people that still can. But things change. Things are updating. And as bad as people want podcasting to be a bright, shiny object, it’s just not. It’s coming in a way. And that’s why every year we see that stairstep every single year up. And the reason that happens, the reason I think it happens, is podcasting does what no other form of media or marketing can do. It sells you time. It doesn’t say stop and read. It doesn’t say, hold on, watch this. Stop what you’re doing and watch this. It says, what are you doing? I’ll come with you. Keep mowing the grass, keep driving to work, keep walking the dog, and keep working the mindless job that you don’t really need to pay attention to. I will keep you company, I will entertain you, I will inform you. And that is the big reason, I think, that podcasting is coming. And as with most new technological advances, which it’s kind of weird to call podcasting a technological advance, because it’s just back to voice, one of the first forms of media we ever had. But it allows people to get the information that they want, to be entertained when they want, without having to compromise. They can keep doing what they’re doing. And I think that’s one of the biggest reasons that it’s growing. And that’s why people want it. They want to be able to come to you and get what they want. It’s an exchange. You’re giving them information, you’re giving them the value of some kind, and they are deciding to listen to you and not something else, but they’re not having to stop. And people really, really like that, like to be able to incorporate that into their life. And one of the upsides is they may leave your website and go to find the answer somewhere else. But also when they press play, they get to hear your voice, they get to know you a little bit, understand your sense of humor, all those things. And when they do finally get on the phone with you or sit down across the table from you, they already feel like they know you.


Molly: Exactly.


Robert: This has probably happened to you, Molly, but I remember one of the first times, I think the first time I remember this happening to me, I was at Podcast Movement. It was my first one in, and I was sitting in a room waiting for a class to start, and I heard John Lee Dumas in the back of the room. And at the time, certainly one of the bigger podcasters, especially in the business space at the time, and I’d probably listened to episodes because it was such a good show. For how to build a business. Here’s how. An entrepreneur started with nothing and did this. And I’d listen to probably at least episodes, and I heard him talking and it was just like, I know exactly who that is. And that was a cool moment. It’s happened a lot since then when I hear someone’s voice or I have a conversation with them. Pat Flynn was another example. I remember Cliff Ravenscraft talking to him. These were back in the day and I felt like I knew that person already. I had so much trust in that person because I’d spent so much time with them. They’ve given me so much value. And that’s the kind of thing that we can be building with our customers, is giving them that value, making them feel comfortable with us. So when they do meet us, when we ask them to write that $ check, their apprehension is much lower because they already trust us.


Molly: And then that’s from the relationship feeling side of it. All right, but what about the asset side, right? So not only are you creating this relationship as an attorney with potential clients and the people listening and nurturing current relationships, right? You get brand visibility. But that’s really the next question people think a podcast is just a podcast, but it’s so much more. It’s really an SEO content machine. So how does that work for lawyers? How do you use all those assets specifically for lawyers?


Robert: Yeah, I mean, it really is an unlimited treasure chest of content because you’ve got the podcast episode, and that should be in a number of places. It should be on podcast players everywhere, but it should also be on your website. People should be able to go to your website, find those answers, and don’t make them leave the website. Have the player there so they can listen to it. You’ve got some show notes, there is a description of it, relevant links calls to action. And then from there, right now, you and I are on Riverside and we’re recording the video that some people will be watching the video because that’s how some people do choose to consume their content. And so you’ve got that full-length video that you can also embed on your website. It’s on YouTube. But then the real power comes from taking that video, breaking it apart into micro-content. Little clips for YouTube shorts. TikTok Instagram, facebook reels, and sharing those. Every episode probably has ten or different little spots that you can pull out and share on branded templates with captions. And the nice thing about sharing that content is if you think about using a billboard, you are hoping that someone comes by who needs that thing or that they will see it enough times that when they do need the thing, you will be branded to them. That’s what both of those things are doing on social media. We make that branded template so even the people who might not be interested, they read the title, they see the captions. That’s not for me right now, but over and over and over, they’re being branded too. But then you’ve got the other people who are seeing it that might need it. But most frequently what you’re having is people that are researching you. They went to your website, they go to your social channels, they went to your website. They might not listen to the podcast episode right this second, but they’re just checking you out. They go to your social channels and they see all these short little clips, very low friction to get someone to press Play on that. You’re not asking them to press this and listen to this episode and who knows what’s there? That’s a big commitment of time. These episodes are short and they’re titled, so they can see the branding, they can see the title, and they go, that’s actually something I’d like to know more about. And they can press play. They see it and they see the content, and it’s professionally produced. That says a lot about you and your brand. You don’t have to ask anything. A lot of lawyers will say, well, my legal services are great, but then their marketing and their legal services probably are great, but then their marketing is not great. And it looks like they’ve hired a freshman in college who just started taking graphic design to do this stuff. And it reeks of the best way. And people see that, and it makes people doubt. They go, I don’t if this is because I’ve always one of the things I’ve heard that I live by is how you do anything, is how you do everything. And I mean that’s what we live by.


Molly: That’s because it’s a good one.


Robert: Like whatever piece of content you’re putting out. I’m not saying it has to be perfect. It needs to look professional. It doesn’t need to look crappy. Exactly. Because that might be the first time somebody sees something from you and they see it and you want them to go, these people look like they know what they’re doing.


Molly: Exactly.


Robert: And it gives them that, okay, they put attention to detail into things. These are people I can trust.


Molly: Indeed. Well, that’s such a huge point because podcasting is one of the few things that is a business development tool that people are comfortable doing with a bad microphone and not editing it and using lower-level tools to see if it works before they actually invest in it. And it’s strange because you would never put out a super crappy Google Ad for your law firm, so why would you? You know what I mean? But a lot of businesses feel like, well, we’ll try it. We’re not going to invest in microphones. We’re not going to build a studio. We’re just going to try a few maybe from our phones and see if we get any. Traction. And then I think it sends the absolute wrong message to your potential clients. And you’re not going to get a high-quality product, especially when you’re on an audio-first platform, right? And a lot of people don’t realize that. That is because the base of podcasting is audio. It’s on audio platforms, it’s on iTunes, it’s on Spotify, where people are talking like this. There are super expensive microphones, and you can’t be on your phone or on an internal mic on your laptop like it’s going to stand out. And so I feel like if you’re going to do something, do it well or don’t do it at all. And podcasting is one of those things that if you don’t really maximize the SEO value, the transcription, the short form video, the social media, post, all of that kind, put it on YouTube you’re really like. It’s like baking a cake, but forgetting two or three ingredients and cooking it anyway. You’re not going to get the result that you were hoping for.


Robert: And that’s the wonderful thing about podcasting, especially today, compared to just even a handful of years ago, is it’s so easy to sound this good.


Molly: It is.


Robert: You can get a microphone for or $ that plugs right into your USB port, and it’s going to sound almost as good as what I’m talking into right now. So that’s the barrier to entry is just get a microphone, plug it into your computer, and now you’ve got it. And when it comes to just starting, I don’t have any problem with starting ugly. But at the same time, I’m not going to put that content necessarily out into the world, right? I’m going to sit down, I’m going to record, I’m going to see how it goes. I’m going to see what it sounds like, get a vibe, get a feel for it. But that first iteration isn’t what I’m usually going to share, but I always encourage people, just try it out, see how it goes, see how they like it, listen to it, and then think, what do I think? Is this something that I like? Is this something I feel like I should do better? Should I improve upon it? Because for most lawyers, the idea is you shouldn’t be doing your podcast by yourself if you’re in a really small firm and you feel like that’s a good way to use your time and energy in the very beginning, sure. But in the scheme of things, it’s a much better idea to hire somebody either locally or online to help you do it, to help you get your podcast edited. Think about most attorneys are charging an hour at a minimum. And so when you start thinking, and this is how I think in my business, anything under X dollars an hour if I can hire it for less than this number, which is my number, then I hire it. And that means I don’t do a lot of things in my business because they’re under that number. And that’s how a lawyer should definitely think is, you’re not going to pay a podcast editor $ an hour, so don’t do it yourself because a podcast editor is going to do it way better.


Molly: Exactly.


Robert: And a video editor is going to do it way better. A website developer is going to get it on your website way better. And so you practice law, you do business development and then let experts handle this stuff.


Molly: I agree. I completely agree. Well, I personally think they should hire law pods. Go to lawpods.com, as a matter of fact, and check out all the work they’re doing and see their website and their portfolios. And you can get in touch with Robert there. You can send contact forms, you can see their social media handles. Everything that you could possibly need is on that website. But yeah, I think like you said, starting ugly is one thing, but really constantly improving and really having a strategy too. Why do you want to have this podcast? Who are you talking to? And then it’s a little harder to start ugly. If you have a plan and you have a roster and you know exactly what you want to do, then it’s easy to get that done. And I did want to mention, Robert: mentioned the $ microphone. That’s the Samsung Q two U. It is a USB mic. It is $. It is the best $ microphone that you could buy. Now, all $ microphones are not created equal, so don’t think that that is the measure, but the Samsung Q Two use. So we’ll be sure to put that in the links.


Robert: But yeah, just make sure it’s a dynamic cardioid because if you’re not in a sound studio, that’s what you need. Just don’t buy the blue Yeti. I know it’s sexy. I know you want to look like Walter Cronkite. Don’t buy that microphone. If you have an echoey room of any kind exactly. You’re doing yourself and your listeners a favor.


Molly: Exactly. Like, for example, I’m using the Shore MV seven, which is a USB and XLR microphone. And I am in a room that is tall ceilings, all glass, all concrete, and all marble tile. And my sound sounds pretty good for being in such a hostile recording environment.


Robert: Yeah, the Yeti would be giving you some pretty rough sound right now.


Molly: Oh, yeah, it would be terrible. It would be terrible. So before we go, what is one thing that you would like to say to any attorneys out there that might have been listening and who are on the fence about starting a podcast? What are your final words for them?


Robert: I think you hit a good thing a moment ago is think about why you’re doing it, who you’re doing it for. Because there are a number of different reasons that an attorney might start a podcast. The one that we focused most on today was educating referral sources was nurturing leads that are coming into your pipeline. But there are other ways to do it. One of them that I do a lot for attorneys is thought leadership is being the first person to talk about a thing. And a lot of times that’s for it can be for prospects, but it can also be for other attorneys that are referral sources. We have attorneys that do a lot of new legislation policy. They’re the first people talking about it, and other people go to their podcast to understand. So they’re building their brand that way. And then another good one is educating referral sources. Make the kind of content that, if you’re a trial lawyer, make trial lawyer content specific to your niche, whether it be trucking or brain injury, that other people can come to and learn from, and then they get to know, like trust you and potentially send you cases, work on cases with you, that kind of stuff. So think about why you’re doing it, who you’re doing it for, and how that turns into money.


Molly: Those are wise words to leave our audience with. I couldn’t agree more. I’m a big fan of strategy and defining the goalpost, so, you know, if you’re kicking the ball in the right direction. So well said. Well said. All right, before my crazy dog starts barking all over again, I’m going to go ahead and wrap this up. So if you would like to reach out to Robert, you should go to his website. All of his links are there, all of his content is there, easy to connect with him. And if you found this content valuable at all, which I can’t imagine that you did not, please consider sharing this on LinkedIn and tagging me and Robert so we can chop it up with you. And thank you for sharing our content. So, without further ado, thank you so much for tuning in and we’ll catch you on the next episode of Camp content.