Molly Ruland:

Alright. Ladies and gentlemen, I am beyond thrilled, excited, humbled, ecstatic. I couldn’t be more over the moon about our guest today, the legendary Spencer Haywood. If you are not familiar, this is a great opportunity for you to get familiar. I was fortunate enough to meet Spencer a couple of years ago and worked on some stuff with him, so I know his story pretty well. And so I’ll give you the cliff notes so we can get right into it, but Spencer was born in 1947. Is that correct? 1947? 49. 49.

Molly Ruland:

Okay. 19 my mom was 47. 1949 in Silver City, Mississippi, born into indentured slavery. So or into slavery. So Spencer literally spent his entire childhood picking cotton in fields and was discovered playing basketball in his late teens and then was taken, shuffled off to the Olympics, Led the world in scores, points, rebounds. I mean, he went from literally, an unimaginable unimaginable situation to traveling the world and setting world records and just being thrown into this new life of his. He has also Sued the NBA and taken it to the Supreme Court and won, and has created generational wealth for generations of athletes, some of which don’t even understand that Spencer Haywood is solely responsible for a lot of the good things that are happening in their life. So So, most recently, Spencer’s been getting a lot of traction because of the show winning time on HBO.

Molly Ruland:

A lot of people are just learning about Spencer Haywood’s story partially because of some of the scenes in this show. So if you haven’t seen it, you should definitely check it out. But what Spencer really means to me is perseverance and purpose. Right? If I think of Spencer, that’s what I think of. What he has done in his life is absolutely incredible, and he’s not done yet. Enough of me talking. Without further ado, welcome to the show, Spencer Haywood.

Spencer Haywood:

Hey. Good to be with y’all again.

Matt Billman:

Been a while.

Spencer Haywood:

Tell the audience that we used to do some podcasting together.

Molly Ruland:

Alright. Well, it ain’t over yet, Kay.

Spencer Haywood:

Very strong shows. Very strong show.

Matt Billman:

No. We will be putting the links because Molly’s intro was, if you don’t know, I’ll give you the cliff notes version, but we’ll put the links in. You go watch those, Those episodes that we could partner

Spencer Haywood:

1. It’s good

Matt Billman:

stuff here. Pitch up D1 was good. Yep, that was a fun day.

Molly Ruland:

Well, Spencer, I believe that the universe gives you and puts you where you need to be at all times, and I was reminiscing about how I met you and how you knew my cousin or know my cousin who also played basketball. And, you know, the world is really just such a small place. And, I’m so grateful to know you and to get to work with you because I think about you all the time. A week ago, I was doing something in my house, and I was thinking to myself, wait a minute. Spencer was literally picking cotton and discovered it in his late teens, so that means in the sixties. Am I correct? In the sixties

Spencer Haywood:

In the sixties.

Molly Ruland:

You were

Spencer Haywood:

I was a slave.

Molly Ruland:

Like, I like, I literally stopped what I was doing because it’s one thing to say 1940 And you were born into slavery, and it’s easy enough for a lot of people to say, well, that was a different time. No. We’re talking about the sixties. In the sixties, you were picking cotton. You were still a Slade. And that, to me, is just absolutely mind boggling. And so I’m really curious about that transition from, you know, picking Sutton, and playing basketball on the court and being discovered. Who was the person that saw you and took you out? Because I know somebody took you under their wing and taught you a lot.

Molly Ruland:

Who was that person?

Spencer Haywood:

That person is Will Robinson, but let me backup a little bit about the Mississippi journey because it was so important for my life. You know? What happened was when SilverCity is a place that ain’t no city, and it ain’t no silver.

Molly Ruland:

Silver.

Spencer Haywood:

It’s just cotton fields. So, we had a population of 375 people, and we were just sharecroppers or, or just, slaving just because you have to eat, and so I started picking cotton When I was at the tender age of 4 years old because that’s when you go into the field because you don’t have a babysitter, and everyone else is in the cotton field, So you have to go out into the cod field and so you go to work. And so as I was getting older and bigger, I could see where this was like a competition because I have 5 brothers, and we were, like, making it a competition because who could pick the most? Who had the best? You know, the road was very clean because you had to clean the cotton as if you were a machine, but you were doing it by hand, so I was good with both hands. And because I have big huge hands, I can hold a lot of cotton, and I could put it into the sack. So I was always out picking my brothers because I was in competition. I would get up in the morning when these guys were, like, you know, eating breakfast and trying to, you know, like, well, do I wanna go into this field? I hate it. I hate it. I would be out there in the field Because I wanted to pick the cotton while the cotton was wet.

Spencer Haywood:

So when they weighed my cotton, I had more cotton. So I was in competition, and then they caught on later on and said, oh, man. This is a competition. So we just made it, like, instead of work, it was really competition. And so I learned to pick with both hands right and left from a row of cotton On both sides. So I had 2 rows of cotton that I was picking from, and lord knows I didn’t know Why the higher power of God as we know it had me in that situation? But then when I look back on my development, You could see that it was developing me, and because of my hands were soft, and I could handle, You know, the ball real well, and also I had I had my both hands I could work with both hands on the court, And then I had pulled that sack of a £100 from the time I was, like, 10. I start pulling the sack of a £100, and And you pull the stack about a 100 yards down the cotton roll, and then you have a 100 pound. You whip the sack on your back at 10, And you walk it all the way back to the trailer, and then you weigh it, and then you dump it out, and you go back to the next one.

Spencer Haywood:

But what it was doing, Molly And Matt, was building up my legs. My legs were so powerful and so strong. I know this is weird, but that’s what happened. And so when I got to high school, I was in the 9th grade. Everybody was like, this guy is big. He can do things, and they put me on the court. But before they put me on the court, let me go back to my 1st basketball. My 1st basketball was, Made by my mother.

Spencer Haywood:

I know you’re gonna like God is gonna why you make a basketball? You make a basketball out of clothing, a cotton, And you put it in a little sack, and you tighten it up really tight. And it’s a great ball, but there’s a trick. It doesn’t bounce.

Molly Ruland:

Yeah. I was gonna say yeah.

Spencer Haywood:

It doesn’t bounce, so we had to create the rules that it’s like bop bop, and you make the pass. And then we had a barrel rim up because we couldn’t afford a big rim and then a real rim, so we had a barrel rim up. So that thing Everything you threw up fell in, so this bedroom is this big. I Just thought my confidence was Quite high. So when we got over to elementary school and then high school, when I was a freshman, The coach, high school coach, saw me and said, well, you got to play. And I was like, I’ve been waiting for you to tell me that I can play. And do I get any shoes? He said, yes. You get a new pair of Converse, and I was like, Yes.

Spencer Haywood:

Because I’ve been playing in those little Jepper shoes called tennis shoes or Zipper shoes. I had no grip. No nothing. It was just Some shoes that fit.

Molly Ruland:

Right.

Spencer Haywood:

And all of a sudden, I got those Converse on. I was like, oh, man. I could fly. I could do anything here now. And I ran down the floor of the gym and stopped. That’s it. Yeah. This is my game.

Spencer Haywood:

So I played that year At McNair High School in Belzoni, Mississippi, which was 7 miles from Silver City because we had no store. We had no gas. We had no Nothing in Silver City. So, yeah, everything was taking place in Belzoni. And I left there, And I went to Chicago with my brothers because my brothers came back home. Oh, you poor brothers. We are rich up north, man. And so I was, like, dying.

Spencer Haywood:

I got good to the north, to Chicago. So I get to Chicago with these fools, and all they did was drink whiskey and had, you know, half a pint of whiskey in their back pocket And talking a lot of talk, and they didn’t wanna like, they were trying to figure out where we’re gonna get you into Crane Tech University, Crane Tech High School, and we’re going to, like, man, we’re gonna bet on you. We’re gonna make some money off of you. And I was like, I just wanted Well, I hadn’t even heard of betting. What are you talking about? And so my brother from college came over from Bowling Green State University, And he saw what was going on in my life then, and I was working at Trad Harvest Restaurant at the busboy Most of the time, that was the summer months, and then I was preparing for school. He said, let’s get out of here. Let’s go over to Bowling Green State University where he had gone to because he was raised up north in Detroit. Out of all the boys, you know, my aunt picked him to come up north and work with her.

Spencer Haywood:

And so we went to Detroit, and I played at Bowling Green for a while, and we just had fun. Then it was time to get ready to enroll in school in Detroit and then or at Bowling Green State University. And, I was a little shy at Bowling Green University because it’s the first time that I had gone to, integrated school. I have never seen, I’ve never been in a room with white folks or anything. So I had a little bit of a problem. So my brother said, let’s go And try out. They have this big special tournament going on in Detroit at Kronk, and most people know Kronk as Kronk Boxing, But it was also a basketball and outdoor courts and tennis and baseball, etcetera. So I went up there to play, And my brother said, let me get you on this high school team, the high school all star team, and you could play in the tournament there.

Spencer Haywood:

So I played against those guys in high school, and some of them were all American and stuff, and I was 15. So I went out and I played. I had 27 points and 12 rebounds, and everybody was like, who is he? Where are they from? What’s going on? And so and then Will Robinson who we were trying to attract, and then we had other players that were like, we don’t believe that this kid is this good. So I’ll tell you what. Why don’t we let him play against the college guys? And I was like, oh, bro, rabbit thing. And I was like, oh, shoot. I’ve been thrown in the brown patch because I practiced all summer with Bowling Green State University College guys. So they had Cassie Russell, Bill Bunton, Oliver Darden, all of those guys from the University of Michigan, Tregani, Claassen, All of the great players, they I think they went to the final 4 or something the year before or that year, and I played Played against them.

Spencer Haywood:

I had 16 points and 7 rebounds. So Will Robinson said come up to my brother, Roy, I like your boy. I like you, I like your brother. Let’s see him play against the pros, so I played against the pros, the pistons. I played 3 games that day.

Molly Ruland:

I am 15 years old.

Spencer Haywood:

Yeah. I played against the Pistons. Dave Bing put me on his team. He’s a hall of famer as well. He put me on his team, and we had a ball. I was blocking stuff, running up and down the floor, and everybody was fascinated By my stamina because I played 3 games, and all I wanted out of the deal was a Faygo Root beer, and I’m good. So I guzzle it down some more, like, any more games? And it was like Will Robinson and all of the other coaches were like, you don’t get tired. He runs like a deer because, again, down in Mississippi, You didn’t have transportation, so I would run to the next town, which was 6 miles 7 miles away.

Spencer Haywood:

You just run, my brothers. We just run. And so I had all of these things that were so horrible in life, but we turned those adversities into Gold. And so that’s why I ended up at the unit at Pershing High School, and Will Robinson said, Okay, boys. Come around. Come this is our team. Get around. Get around.

Spencer Haywood:

Get around. So we sat down on the floor, and he said, Damn it. We’ve been playing with mules. I got us a horse. Me neither me. So we started with the goal of winning the class a state championship, and it took us 1 year to get it ready, and then the following year, we won it after a 35 year drought by Detroit Public schools. We won it all, and then it was time to go away to college. And then that’s when all of the universities came knocking because I had Wayne Dyer, doctor Wayne Dyer, and all of my tutors in high school.

Spencer Haywood:

They made me have to walk around sometimes with books on my head. Keep from slouching, and he would and he was teaching me. Wayne was this white guy who became a very famous Arthur later on, but he I was his 1st pupil, so he would teach me all of these things, in diction and words because I would From the south, you draw all your words, and and he just brought them out and, you know, correct my addiction, had me moving forward, and then it Came time for me to go away to college, so I came up with the idea. Well, wouldn’t it be nice if my mother could see me play and my family see me play, and so we checked with University of Mississippi and Mississippi State, and they were like, no. We don’t accept blacks. Now wait a minute here. So I was the number 1 high school player, so I said, okay. So I then signed with the University of Tennessee.

Spencer Haywood:

And when I signed with the University of Tennessee, Adolf Rupp, who was the Kentucky coach, Said, oh, no. No. No. I’m supposed to get the 1st black player, Superstar, in the Southeastern Conference because I just lost 2, 5 blacks with Texas Westin. I deserve Spencer. And come on down here, boy. And he was just talking so rough and so crazy. I was like, oh, boy.

Spencer Haywood:

And Will Robinson came down and said, you don’t need to be in this pissing contest. Why don’t you? Why don’t we send you off to this junior college in Colorado, Close to New Mexico. You’re gonna have a lot of fun. You’re gonna love it. So we went off to Colorado and New Mexico. So we drove all night, and when I got on campus, we looked around. Man, We’re gonna run up to Denver next weekend. Right? And it was like, Denver is a hot 360 miles away.

Spencer Haywood:

And Albuquerque was 420. I was like, I’m stuck. So we went bowling and playing, you know, just playing basketball, doing nice things for yourself, learning and having a tutor, and we just Really brushed up because you’re in junior college. You gotta go. If you maintain a b average, you could go into the major university the following year. So that was my thing, you know, low and behold, 1968 rolled around, and then they’re like The newspaper came out. Kareem is not going to the Olympics. He’s boycotting the 68 Olympics.

Spencer Haywood:

I didn’t think anything about it, and then and then the next step was to put it in the paper. Wes went on sale and Alvin Hayes signed a pro contract, which meant back then if you were a pro, you couldn’t play in the Olympics. So, Jerry Tarkainian, who was the coach, not at UNLV, but at a junior college, said, My boys are better than any of your players that you have done at the Olympic trials because they had Pete Marvich, Tom Bullwinkle, Calvin Murphy. We all said Rick Mount. You had just all of the who’s who of college basketball from d d one all the way to to d three and NIA and AAU. So everybody’s in this gym. So here we come in, the JC guys. You know? They said, oh my god.

Spencer Haywood:

Those are some renegades. So we came in, and we started playing against these guys in scrimmages and games, and I was killing them. And Hank Iba came over to Jerry and said, Jerry, don’t you get this boy hurt. We’re looking at him very strongly for a team and for being on the 68th team. That’s when I first heard it. I was like, I started going crazy. I started running harder, jumping higher and everything, and then Jerry said, we gotta sit you down. Coach Iber won’t don’t want you to get hurt.

Spencer Haywood:

So, then we got to the round where we were selecting the team, and they kept cutting people. He was like Pete Maverick. Now Pete Maverick was averaging 44 points per game At LSU, and they cut Pete, and I was like, no way I’m gonna make this team there. And then they cut Rick Mount who was averaging 39 points per game at Purdue. He got cut. Then Calvin Murphy was averaging 33 points per game at Niagara. He got cut. And then they cut the big guy from Tennessee, Tom Bullwinkle.

Spencer Haywood:

I was like, woah. Wait a minute. And then They said, okay. Here’s the 1st players that we have picked in this. Spencer Haywood, I was like, Oh, man. Because, you know, all of the time we were there for the 10 days, everybody was like, You gotta have your birth certificate here. Make sure your parents have your birth certificate here because we’re gonna have to go and develop these passports. So we’re gonna travel to Russia, to Yugoslavia, to Finland, and back to New York and into we’re gonna play the scrimmage, the Knicks, and then we’re gonna go to Cincinnati and off to you won’t go home.

Spencer Haywood:

You’re just gonna go straight from this exhibition season, blah blah blah, and we’re gonna go Into Mexico, and it was like, why are you sweating over there, boy? Hey, guy. I’ve been looking at me, and I was like, I didn’t bring my I didn’t bring my birth certificate. Well, it’s okay. We’re gonna get one right away. Alright. Call your mother up, and we’ll get your birth certificate here. So we called my mom, and she said, Yeah. I got his birth certificate, and I’m but I’m not sending it up.

Spencer Haywood:

And they said, well, why you’re not gonna send this birth certificate up? She said, because he doesn’t have one like that. He has a birth certificate where we wrote it in the Bible under John 21. That’s where its birth certificate is. She’s still on the Olympic committee. You mean you don’t have a physical birth certificate? You just got it written in the Bible? So we had to go to Mississippi, the Jackson Daily News, and all of the vital statistics people from Jackson. They went to my mom’s house, and we were on a rough run. We had to get back. We had to get this thing done, and then they had to get it back to the, To Alamosa, Colorado for the, you know, for the team, and missus Eunice said, You’re not gonna come in my house and get my Bible, use up my Bible, put my son a birth certificate, and not eat my chicken.

Spencer Haywood:

So they had to eat the food. Southern people. Yeah. They had to eat the food, and everybody’s looking at their watch like, Woah. So they were telling me the story. Then when they got my birth certificate, the midwife who was born on my mother’s bed where I was conceived. They had my name spelled. That’s p e e n s I e.

Spencer Haywood:

Spencey.

Molly Ruland:

Spencey. That’s right.

Spencer Haywood:

So when I got to And they got the birth certificate back at Alamosa, Colorado, you know, because we were training at the, you know, Olympic Village, but we was training in the high altitude too because of Mexico is in the high altitude, so and all my teammates, fancy, expensive, expensive, So thank you very much. Let me commit to change my name back to Spencer, and I was on my way. We get to Russia, And we’re like, yeah, man. I’m out of the country for the first time. Boy, this is beautiful. And They had us eating together, the Russian team and the American team. The Russian team had a curtain between, and we were on the other side. So we were eating this food, and some of the guys on the team, and I was saying, This steak here is pretty stringy.

Spencer Haywood:

It’s a pretty stringy steak here. They got it in Russia. And then Jojo White, who played with the Celtics, said, boy, that’s that horse. So that was our filet mignon was the horse. The horse steak with gravy on it. And poor Charlie Scott. He was skinny anyway, and he had been pampered by Dean Smith down in North Carolina. So I’m not gonna eat it.

Spencer Haywood:

I said, well, hey, Charlie. Why don’t you eat my ice cream and my cake for dessert? Give me that horse. So I ate all of his horse, And he couldn’t make it, so they had to send him home. We had to send him home. Yeah. Because he was crying. Maybe, oh, Dean, please get me out of here. They’re crazy.

Spencer Haywood:

And so we sent him hope, and he reached out because he was skinny, and so he lost all of his weight, and he got sick as a dog. So we finished out in Russia and then in Yugoslavia and then on into Finland and then back to New York to play the Knicks, to scrimmage the Knicks, and that’s when Howard Cosell was like, I don’t know. This Olympic team, we picked them to finish last, and he stuck the mic in my face. Like, what do you think? You’re supposed to be the big star. I was like, I don’t know anything. I don’t care about anything but just basketball. And Hank Ivo was like, yes. That’s my boy.

Spencer Haywood:

And so how it was like, might have a good chance. Let’s see how you do against Willis Reed. Now, of course, you know, those guys were not in the best of shape, You know, when because they hadn’t gone through training camp or anything like that to pro teams. So I went out there and killed Willis Reed and all of the other Nixon, so that’s when the first time I saw my name in the paper, like, you know what? This Olympic team might be a winner. And, Pierce, you had Jojo White, Charlie Scott. You had Mike Silliman. You had just really a strong team, and then we went to Cincinnati, And and we were busting Cincinnati’s, but and then when it was over, Oscar took me and a couple other guys up To the level upstairs and was talking to us with the coach that you guys are gonna win this because he was there at 64, I think. It was 60-64, I think.

Spencer Haywood:

And so he was telling us all about the experience and stuff, and so the next thing we were off From Cincinnati to Mexico City. Arrived in Mexico City, then you had, All of this turmoil going on because of the black boycott, the tracks people are saying they’re going to boycott, And then Tommy Smith and John Carlos arrived on campus, and we were like, these are the militant guys, so let’s listen to these guys. And so we were sitting in the room, like, 3 days later, and because the Olympic Village and Olympic Committee for USA was, like, nervous that we were going to do something stupid, like boycotting down and not playing, Which I never was, I was just like, god. I got that passport. Remember?

Molly Ruland:

Yeah. I didn’t do all that

Spencer Haywood:

for nothing yet. Passport, babe. And I’m out of the cotton field. You gotta be mad. Anyway so and we’re sitting in this Room and Wilma Rudolph, she comes in. We were, like, wow. Wilma Rudolph, you know, she was a great track star from the Olympics, I think in 60 or 64, and then, then the door kinda creaked open, and it was Jesse Owens. We’re, like, Yeah.

Spencer Haywood:

Jesse Owen. And so Jesse was talking, you know, sorta like an uncle Tom telling us what are we gonna do, be like, and everything. So Tommy Smith and John Carlos said, what did they get? What did they do to you? Why didn’t they didn’t they didn’t treat you right when you came back? And he got so mad, And he looked at both of them. He said, how would any of you 2 sons of bitches Would have felt running before Hitler. I was like, oh, boy. So George Foreman hit me and my shoulder. I’m like, man, who’d be hitting me like that? And he because we were sitting there because we were thinking we’re gonna go to the commissary after this and gather down all of the food. So we were like, oh, man.

Spencer Haywood:

So Jesse got mad, and everybody said, well, I guess we gotta lace them up. We’re gonna play. No boycott coming here, and that’s how we got to the black glove being raised because When they decided that if they won their race, they were gonna salute the black folks back home because the black folks were against us Being at the Olympics for some reason.

Molly Ruland:

And that was all because of the, like, the mistreatment of black athletes. Is that where the boycott was coming from?

Spencer Haywood:

In the United taste, but also that was the same time that we had had, the murder of Martin Luther King because he met with John and Tommy before the Olympics that they should go to the Olympics. Shaquille Robinson, all of these great people had met, but The old heads about the importance of being in the Olympics, so that was, that was a big drop for us, and It was just a weird time and then when they won their their event, they put up the black glove and salute And the Avery Brundage who, a friend of Hitler’s. I know. I know. Anyway, he was the head of the OI OIC or whatever the Olympic Committee Mhmm. And he threw him out of the, Out of the village, and and and then we had turned in all of our passports, and he says, whatever happened, You’ll not get out of this country if you don’t do what we want down here. No more talk. No more boycotting.

Spencer Haywood:

No more nothing. I got your passport, and so we were like, oh, boy. So then George Foreman gets in and beats the Russian for the belt, and you see George Foreman walking around with the little flag in his hand. The American flag, you know, George is like, Whatever happened, I just wanna get back to Houston.

Molly Ruland:

Yeah. No confusion.

Spencer Haywood:

So here I am. We played our final game, and I’m standing on the podium, And they they said, Capiani, Haywood, Capiani, and I was like, for me? And so They were getting ready to put this gold medal on my neck, and I’m thinking, wow. Can you imagine 3 to 4 years ago, I was a slave picking cotton, and now I am on the biggest stage in the world Receiving the gold medal. And so I just start crying, like, so Jojo White and And, Mike Silliman and Bill Hoskett, I knew you were a baby. I knew you were a baby. You’re out here crying like a baby. May I keep that thing on you? I was like, can I explain it to you guys? And we were just talking after, you know, the ceremony, And they kept saying they walked up to me and said, do you know you broke the record in scoring? I was like, what record? They called all 4 records, and I was like, So then I went back to Detroit. I’m thinking that all of the black Folks in Detroit were gonna be waiting for me at that airport, like, I’m gonna get him to go to that Olympics.

Spencer Haywood:

I arrived at the city airport, I mean, at the Metro Airport, just full of black and white people. Champion, come here, baby. The governor and everybody else, like, Howard Cosell, you were wrong. New Jersey. No. That was my Olympic journey.

Molly Ruland:

I mean, first of all, your brain, Spencer, is, like, the most impressive thing I’ve ever seen. You know? You’re not so good at electronics, but names and dates and memories. Yeah.

Spencer Haywood:

You got that on the

Molly Ruland:

mark now, I’m pretty sure.

Spencer Haywood:

You’re like, Charlotte?

Molly Ruland:

Hey. You’re killing it, but, I mean, honestly, the fact that you remember, like, all these stats about all these players and all these people, I mean, it’s just so incredibly impressive. But what really Stands out to me is it feels like Will really knew what he was doing sending you to that junior college because it gave you the opportunity because, You know, I just don’t think you know, to really

Spencer Haywood:

I wouldn’t have been eligible at a u at a major university because they didn’t allow Freshman Matt to play basketball. If you were a freshman, you couldn’t play it with anybody. You would just scrub. You’d just sit there.

Molly Ruland:

Which is just so yeah. So he really knew what he was doing, and it’s so good he looked out for you, but I just can’t imagine the pressure that you were under, you know, to come from such a small world and to know so little. And then just, you know, not only the pressure of playing with athletes, but now you’re, like, Responsible for racism in America. Like, no pressure at, what, 18 years old. You know? I mean, it’s just It’s so much, and that’s such an iconic form for, you know, people listening, you know, if they don’t remember, like, that scene, that power, that picture of the 2 athletes holding. I mean, that was a big, big deal. Right? It was a huge deal. And so for you to be a part of that and come out of that okay, And, you know, and not only that, but those records that you, set the

Spencer Haywood:

most points in the Olympics In this history Mhmm. Right. I had the highest field goal percentage in the history of the Olympics, the most rebounds, and the most blocked shots.

Molly Ruland:

And how long did you hold those records?

Spencer Haywood:

I held up that record. I held the sport record until

Matt Billman:

Kevin Durant. Right?

Spencer Haywood:

44 years until Kevin Durant broke it.

Matt Billman:

Yeah.

Molly Ruland:

I mean Yeah.

Spencer Haywood:

But hold on. I always tell Kevin, there’s an asterisk by your by his because I didn’t shoot threes.

Molly Ruland:

Exactly.

Spencer Haywood:

They weren’t young folk, and he was 27 when he won it. So he just did a piece last week on Spencer Haywood. Kevin Garnett.

Molly Ruland:

That’s it. He should.

Spencer Haywood:

Not Kevin Garnett, but Kevin Durant wrote a nice piece about me. How important I am to him and his wealth and his career. I was like, woah. These guys are getting it.

Molly Ruland:

They’re well, they’re starting to get it. Right?

Spencer Haywood:

And, I

Molly Ruland:

I mean, I, you know, I get it. You’re focused on your career and your athleticism, and you’re trying to stay out of trouble as best you can, and everybody’s dealing with the hell, the hand they were dealt. Right? Everybody’s got the loans that they have, like especially as a black athlete in America, it’s been, you know, a very difficult road for a lot of people. So Let let’s jump ahead a little bit because I mentioned that, you know

Spencer Haywood:

Well, let me just take you through the college because what happened was, you know, all of these universities were coming, And I said, I’m going to play with Kareem out at UCLA. And John Wooden was like that. And then they had Sam Gilbert, like, Got the money. And so everybody in Detroit, the mayor, the governor, and everybody was just saying, Come home and play. We’re gonna to give Will Robertson the job because he was the number one high school coach in the country. So I came back to the University of Detroit where I was an all American. I finished 2nd behind Kareem in the MVP balloting, And then the draft came up that year and the ABA was, like, fallen. They said We gotta get Kareem. We gotta get him to come to the ABA.

Spencer Haywood:

So they offered him everything under the sun, which was fraudulent, but, You know, his agent and all those UCLA people, they would do all that academic stuff. So they taught him, No. You don’t take that contract. Go with Milwaukee Real League in a real contract. So he went to the Milwaukee Bucks. And so they then came after me and said, we’re gonna break our rule because we can’t get anybody in the draft because Every time the NBA drafts them and they go , all of them are going to the NBA. They’re not going to the ABA, so we gotta usurp the draft by letting an underclassman come in and play, and you are it. And so it was Hannah Storm’s father, Mike Storm, who was the public relations for the whole league.

Spencer Haywood:

He set that up, and so I went over to Denver, And I was the rookie of the year, MVP of the league, MVP of the All Star Game, averaging 30 and 20. So I asked the phone for a raise, and he gave me a raise, but he gave me a fraudulent contract because I was Still on the class. I wasn’t 21 yet. And then I get this lawyer, and so we walk in, like, yeah, man. We’re gonna get this contract straightened out, and this was Al Ross’ first big deal. He was my lawyer, my agent at the time, but he walked in. Hey. Ring me.

Spencer Haywood:

We wanna change this contract and make it real, and so he listened to us very nicely. You know? We’re listening. Yeah. Okay, guys. So, Spencer, you can’t go back to college. You can’t go to the NBA, And you got this Jew ass lawyer in here with you. So you get your nigga ass out of here and this Jew ass lawyer And be ready to play when the clock start. We were like, woah.

Spencer Haywood:

That’s no way to treat the MVP. All the other stuff, I didn’t matter because I’d heard it in Mississippi, so that

Molly Ruland:

yeah.

Spencer Haywood:

And so Jerry Colangelo, Who Jerry Colangelo and Sam Schulman had the 2 expansion teams, Phoenix Suns and the Seattle Supersonics. The Phoenix Suns said we’re gonna raid the ABA. Every MVP they have, we’re gonna snatch them from the ABA and bring them to the NBA. Thus, the first one to leave was Connie Hawkins, who was the MVP before me. He snatched him and took him over to Phoenix. And my turn with the MVP, Sam Schulman said, I’m gonna snatch him too. And they were like, Sam, you can’t do it. The NBA was like, you can’t do it, Sam, because he’s an underclassman.

Spencer Haywood:

I don’t care. And I was like, I don’t care either. So what are we going to do? Sam said, we’re gonna go, and we’re gonna sign, and we’re gonna play. So after I signed the contract and I’m walking out on the floor, Yeah, man. I got my masonic jersey on. Everything is nice. I even cleaned up my face. And they said, ladies and gentlemen, we have an illegal player on the floor, number 24.

Spencer Haywood:

I would like, oh, that’s me. He must be escorted off this floor Because this injunction is for the next 10 days. We got him. And so I went back to the hotel and started working out with Rick Wells. We were just working, And I was doing all my road work, running through Seattle, and people you gotta get it. You’re gonna win this case. You’re gonna win this case. And I keep saying, what case? You’re fighting them all the way to the Supreme Court because they’re not going to stop, and I was like, oh, the case.

Spencer Haywood:

So then I get an injunction to play For 10 days, and they would like to say every time, ladies and gentlemen, this game is under protest. We have an illegal player, and so we were to play for those 10 days, and then they would get another 10 day injunction. And I was at home and they would do some horrible stuff. So then it just went on and maneuvering through the courts, Through the district and all the way up to the Supreme Court before they were here in the case, they had 2 more drama periods. 1 was in Cincinnati where they said, ladies and gentlemen, we have this illegal player number 24. We have an injunction to put him off the grounds in which this arena set out, so they put me out into the snow. Yeah. So I’m standing out there freezing.

Spencer Haywood:

The team had to play, so they couldn’t and that in those days, you travel with. I had Lenny Wilkins, a player coach in a suit in a uniform. Rob Thorn was assistant coach In a uniform player, and the associate coach was Tom Macherry in a suit. I mean, in and playing the game, so we had nobody in the clothes to go out and tell me. It was just everybody in uniform. And so, I got on the bus and everything froze. In fact, the police who were sitting outside the gates saw me freezing to death, so they put me in the car. I said, we’re gonna lose our jobs for that, and I was talking shit like, Yeah.

Spencer Haywood:

Well, I’m gonna make enough money. I’ll pay for your career. Then they were, like, shut up. Just get warm and shut up. We’re gonna lose our jobs over this madness. And so that finally got warm, then then the bus Came around, picked us up, and we kept going. Then I get to Chicago, and Chet Walker is in a warm up, and he says, Oh, I hurt my ankle, and the next morning, I read the newspaper. Chet Walker and the Chicago Bulls sue you sued me for $600,000.

Spencer Haywood:

I was like, dang. So then the case had maneuvered all the way to the Supreme Court, And then that’s when the the this justice system said we we We’d like for him to play, and the argument that that justice Marshall put forth was, We allowing tennis players, hockey players, baseball players, tiddlywinks. You can go when you want to, when you are ready to play, but the 2 revenue sports, basketball and football, you can’t go Because we wanna keep making money off of you. Off of you. And he also mentioned the fact that, you know, at that time, the Vietnam War was going on and stuff. So everybody could go to war at age 18, but you can’t make a living for yourself in America at 18 Because of, you know, basketball. You can’t do anything in sports other than those sanctioned sports like baseball, tennis, etcetera. And so he said it’s wrong, and I won the case, and I was like, yeah.

Spencer Haywood:

Oh, finally. And then, the next year, the NBA Players Association because I was not a member of the union. So they made me a member of the union, and then the NBA said, let’s give him a one last slap Before we let him play. So the draft came up, and they said, Heywood is drafted in the 2nd round By Buffalo. I had played 2 years of pro. And on my record, as of today, it says, Haywood was drafted by Buffalo in the 2nd round. And so, who is it? What did it mean, was it Iguodala? I think Andre Iguodala said, you weren’t so tough. How were you? Why were you drafted in the 2nd round? I was like, bro, bro, bro.

Spencer Haywood:

And now he’s the head of the union.

Molly Ruland:

Of course.

Spencer Haywood:

Yeah. So that was my period. And then, this summer, 1st of all, we were like they were getting ready to shoot winning time, and I was like, oh, gosh. And the writer tried to get in touch with me. I was like, I don’t wanna talk to anybody about this. I I want as few pubs as possible. I don’t want to know about this winning time, and why would y’all want me in? I was only there for 1 year. And it was like, no.

Spencer Haywood:

But your character is a strong character, And we’re gonna get an award winning actor to play you, Wood Harrison. I’m like, oh, man. So let me just be sick for 2 years. And so when the thing came out and here we are down in LA, And we are doing a celebration of Karim’s 75th birthday. So they have all of us on the floor, me, all of our team, you know, because we all Been hanging. So here’s Lebron and all of those players from, where he’s playing OKC, Which was formerly the Sonics, and the coach explained it to the players, and that’s the guy that made you rich, blah blah blah. I didn’t know he had played it to him. The same thing happened with the Lakers.

Spencer Haywood:

And so LeBron and all of them, he knew. But, he and Westhead and Anthony Davis came and wrestled me, and I was like, but it’s Kareem’s birthday. It’s not my birthday. They said, no, man. Winning time. You are the man that made me rich, and I was like, oh, the worst thing in my life is the best thing of my life. And then, the movie companies came knocking at the door. Oh, man.

Spencer Haywood:

Your character for that 1 year was just dominant. What about your whole life?

Molly Ruland:

Right.

Spencer Haywood:

And then that’s when I agreed upon making a movie with Lions Gate. Lions Gate For the Spencer Haywood story made for motion pictures in the theaters.

Molly Ruland:

Okay. So Spencer, you tell all these stories in, like, such a colorful way, you know, from the perspective of just being a human going through all this. But I think what is so powerful is that, You know, you’ve literally created generational wealth for generations of athletes. And to really think about, like, how bad it was. You know, I love that you never focus on the negative. You always focus on the story, but, you know, these universities were making 1,000,000 of dollars off these Zach.

Spencer Haywood:

1,000,000,000 dollars.

Molly Ruland:

1,000,000,000 dollars and just using people up and not giving them an education while they’re there. And 4 years later, if they were lucky, their bones would be broken. They were used up. They weren’t educated, and they had nothing to show for it. Nothing to show. You’re building multibillion dollar stadiums, and so, I mean, what you did, you know, by The it’s the hardship rule. Is that what it is? Where you can’t

Spencer Haywood:

Well, I call it the hardship rule, and then, because I sued the NBA In the NC two a, so they said, whatever happens, we’re never going to put his name on this ruling. Yet we have the Larry Bird rule, which is a modified version of mine, and the Oscar Robinson rule, which is basically mine. And so that’s what the fight has been about because they call it first the hardship.

Molly Ruland:

Mhmm.

Spencer Haywood:

Secondly, call it,

Molly Ruland:

the one and done. Okay.

Spencer Haywood:

3rd, they call it 1 and done. And the 4th, they just call it anything, but Not Spencer Haywood rule. So now I have the Players Association and Commission Adam Silver, they’re finishing up this final TV deal and all of the betting deals that they are doing, And, also, they’re gonna bring in the 2 teams. They are going to switch the name over finally to the Spencer Haywood rule. As they should. Yeah. So the players are pushing for it, you know, Garnett, former player Who just did a special with me, my Matt Burns, all of those hard hard hard hitting podcasters are doing it, And now the players are doing it. Like Kevin, Durant is one of the guys who are leading.

Spencer Haywood:

LeBron is leading. So I’m just sitting back and saying, hey. It’s gonna happen on God’s time, not on my time. Usually, when stuff happens on my time, I get hot.

Molly Ruland:

Right. Well, you know, I think we would be remiss for sure to not mention that you also just Steve, the lifetime achievement award from the Ryan Gordy Foundation. Mhmm. Among other thing I mean, honestly, it’s about time

Spencer Haywood:

that town. You know? That’s where I I grew up. That’s Motown. And then to receive it in California in this swanky, huddle Beverly Hills Hotel.

Matt Billman:

Yeah. People playing music

Spencer Haywood:

and

Matt Billman:

performing and whatnot. I saw that.

Spencer Haywood:

Yeah. And then, I have received quite a few things that happened this year.

Molly Ruland:

You’ve been on every time I get on social media, I see you standing there with somebody, LeBron, Magic.

Spencer Haywood:

You know? Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, these guys that’s why I got the jersey on the day. We have, All about championships. But what happened was I lost my wife last summer, Linda. After 36 years of marriage, she passed on, and I got this call from Magic Johnson saying, man, We’re going to Hawaii. We want you to go with us. You know, we’re your family, the Lakers, and then Pat Riley said, man, we’re going to we’re gonna love you up some. So they took me over to Hawaii, and we Kareem, Michael Cooper, all of us were.

Spencer Haywood:

We stayed over there for 7 Great days and just hung out and had a lot of love with the wives and stuff. And, ironically, Cookie, Magic’s wife and my wife went to the same high school. They knew each other in high school.

Molly Ruland:

That’s why.

Spencer Haywood:

So it was just a beautiful thing for me, and it’s just been incredible what’s going on in my life and how life is Just giving me what I always thought I was deserving of, but it never happened in my time. And so Now they did a special on how much money was created for the athletes by me. It’s up around $60,000,000,000 for families to make that change for families, Generational wealth. I mean, because you do it for 1 athlete, but you’re doing it for 20 or 30 people all down the line, ages and everybody else. So It’s it’s pretty pretty heavy stuff, and this 2 old boy from Silver City, Mississippi where there ain’t no city, And it ain’t no

Matt Billman:

ain’t no silver.

Spencer Haywood:

That’s right. It ain’t no silver. It ain’t no city. Just got the bill.

Molly Ruland:

I gotta ask too, speaking of lots of money, You know, this is one for the sneakerheads, but you were like you were the original shoe deal. Let’s talk about I know that’s like, no.

Spencer Haywood:

No. It’s all good. It’s all good because you know what? I got news for you.

Molly Ruland:

Okay.

Spencer Haywood:

Okay. Well, I was the original Nike shoe guy, the spokesperson in the whole deal. But at the time, Phil did not have a He didn’t have his office set up and stuff, so we were rolling with the shoe out of the trunk and the whole bit. So my guy Who I had trusted. He said, I wanna be an agent. You know? He had just finished up at the University of Washington, and we were friends. And so I said, okay. Be an agent.

Spencer Haywood:

Do this contract for me with Nike, and, I’m going on the road. I give you a power of attorney letter. Take care of it. You demand. He comes back, and he tells me, man, that shoe wasn’t gonna make it. You know? I did sell your stock Because I couldn’t get it. I was ready to be thrown out of my house for my mortgage and everything, so I don’t have any money. But, you know, that’s showing I’ll make it. Kept trying to reiterate that the shoe is not gonna make it, and so I sold my stock.

Spencer Haywood:

So they registered my stock. Phil Knight, the owner of Nike, always rubbed it in. You’re at 2,200,000,000. Michael Jordan called me to have dinner. I’m thinking, oh, man. Me and Mike, we’re on a roll, man. We’re gonna play golf. We’re gonna, like, just spend some time. We had New York.

Spencer Haywood:

We had this big long table. We’re talking busy, and he goes on and on. He goes on and on about this Nike deal. Spencer was the first one. We had all the owners there because they were doing that collective bargaining, and I was like, Mike, I don’t wanna hear about it. And he just went on and on about me and my dumb mistake and shit. I said, like, boy, I had And then I had to cut him off and put him in his place by saying, you wouldn’t have been in the league if it wasn’t for my dumb mistake going to the Supreme Court. He said, touch.

Spencer Haywood:

Touche.

Molly Ruland:

I’ll send her down now.

Spencer Haywood:

So we left it. And so now Nike is coming back with, Possibly, the Spencer Haywood OG shoe. Oh. Oh. Oh.

Molly Ruland:

Yeah. I love it.

Spencer Haywood:

So, again, All of these things are happening years, years , years, not on my time, but on God’s time. So here I am now, like, Woah. OG shoe with Nike?

Matt Billman:

It all unfolds. Yep.

Spencer Haywood:

Yeah. So I’m just watching it all happen in front of me and Being in a state of gratitude because I’m so grateful. I’m so grateful for my health, my children, and my daughters are doing well. My grandkids don’t like basketball.

Molly Ruland:

Who’s counting?

Spencer Haywood:

Those. They like it. They’re just talking. Yeah. My granddaughter is saying, don’t worry, papa. I’m gonna be the best basketball player you ever had. And I said, that’s my girl.

Molly Ruland:

There you go. Well, you know, Spencer, when I think about you, I really think about perseverance and purpose because you are just such a humble person, and your Faith and your belief and the belief in yourself is just really unmatched, you know, to to to go through all that hardship, but just to keep your eye on the on the, you know, the goal, right, which is a happy family, a happy life, a healthy life, you know, and then you get all these accolades, you know, a long time later. Right? You shoulda gotten a lot of these sooner, but it’s like you said. It’s not on your time. You know? The you know, you’re on God’s plan, But even in all these terrible things, you know, even the last year I mean, I think about you all the time with Linda, and how Hard that must be to have somebody so close to you that you love so much, and then they’re not there, and then you’re winning these awards, and All these good things are happening, and I know that’s gotta be so bittersweet for you because, you

Spencer Haywood:

know sweet. Because I know she would be Styling and profiling on that event, on all of these events, and just happy as hell because she went through all of the suffering

Molly Ruland:

and with

Spencer Haywood:

all of my recovery and everything because, you know, I got 39 years, but I only have one day. And The moral of the story about me and Michael is when I told him, I said, if I had to got that money, Michael, I probably would have been dead, and that’s when he was like, you know, because I I I flashed back to I flashed back to LA, and I said, I probably would have been dead.

Molly Ruland:

I mean, that transition from being a literal slave in the early sixties, right, while people are, you know, peace, love, and and and Woodstock. Right? You know? And you’re literally a slave, and then to go through all of that change. Of course, you had some struggles with drugs and money. And, I mean, how could you not go from one extreme to the other and have such pressure on you and not make a bad turn, you know, or or a detour, if you will, here and there. I mean, I think you’re right, and I think the universe Yeah.

Spencer Haywood:

Well, being the first, Molly, is Being the 1st in anything is like you pay a serious price, And I paid that price, but I came out on the other side with my sanity, with my godliness. And I’m happy I’m healthy. Life is good.

Molly Ruland:

And, you know, you know, Spencer, I gotta say, you know, when I was managing your social media for a little while, this is one of Favorite things to tell people about you. You know, you get to peek behind the curtain in somebody’s social media and, you know, just watching how you engage With your own daughters on social media, it’s the most wholesome thing I’ve ever seen.

Spencer Haywood:

Mhmm.

Molly Ruland:

I sometimes would just see your comments on their posts and your messages to them, and I would just cry because, like, You are literally the most loving, wholesome person I have ever met in my life.

Spencer Haywood:

Yeah. Well, you know, I was born, even though I have 5 brothers, I have 4 sisters too. So I have 4 daughters.

Molly Ruland:

Uh-huh. And they are all stunners and they’re just doing things, and Isis was her music. She’s just killing it right now. I mean, you know, I feel like I’m a Quiet little part of your, you know, cheering section for the whole family, you know, and it’s just, it’s just wonderful.

Spencer Haywood:

She’s with the NBA Players Association as one of their chief psychologists for the league now as well as our own private practice. Courtney is a professor at Lincoln University there in Philadelphia, and Zuleik is running Iman Inc, because we never did talk about My life with Iman.

Molly Ruland:

Exactly.

Spencer Haywood:

Model that was married to David Bowie later, but I brought her from the sticks. Yeah. Well, she’s from Somalia, Somalia, so I always kid her and my granddaughter because she’s My granddaughter and I listen to both of us, and I tell her stories. Your mother didn’t know your grandma. Mama didn’t know anything. I brought her out of Africa, and she’s

Molly Ruland:

just oh,

Spencer Haywood:

He’s such a creep. He didn’t bring me out of no place.

Molly Ruland:

Like, come on, man. What are you doing? And your daughter with her, she’s doing what she’s doing now?

Spencer Haywood:

She helps run Emile and Inc, the cosmetics and make fashion and stuff. But her primary thing now is she’s raising her daughter In Wichita, Kansas because her husband is a restaurateur. Wow. Restaurants he runs down there, and, And they’re saying to Vinny and my granddaughter, you’re gonna be the best dancer ever ever ever ever, Iman and Zuleika and when I get up close to Vinny and I said what you gonna be darling? She said I’m a basketball player. Yes. That’s my girl.

Molly Ruland:

And how many grandchildren do you have?

Spencer Haywood:

I have 3. And then my 8 year old son, he’s trying to figure out why am I playing baseball because my daughter wanted to play baseball for a minute. You got a clock with the ball. He’s like, I can’t wait to play basketball because he’s 4 inches taller than his class.

Molly Ruland:

Oh, and then he should definitely be playing ball.

Spencer Haywood:

I know, but, you know and then I got the monster man who Watches LeBron stuff continuously. All he does is play LeBron and Jordan and stuff on, you know, With that, that thing they have. Matt, you know?

Molly Ruland:

Yeah. Yeah.

Spencer Haywood:

The game, but also

Matt Billman:

the Hulu 2 k PlayStation.

Spencer Haywood:

The movie. The movie.

Matt Billman:

Of Space Jam.

Spencer Haywood:

Michael Jordan and the movie with LeBron. He watches it over

Matt Billman:

Really? No. Space Jam. Were they going to, like

Spencer Haywood:

Space Jam.

Molly Ruland:

Yeah. Moving to him. I was doing

Spencer Haywood:

1. Yeah.

Matt Billman:

He was doing it. Jordan was the original one, and then John had

Spencer Haywood:

the new one. So he’s watching both Back and forth. And his mom was a division one player at Northern Illinois, so he’s got it. He’s got an attitude too. Can’t wait to bust him up in a couple of weeks.

Molly Ruland:

I love it. Well, Spencer, you seem like you’re in good health. I know you had a rocky road last year as well with health issues and everything else, but you you seem like you’re in real good spirits and

Spencer Haywood:

Came out on the other side, and also, being a survivor of prostate cancer, So this is my 9th year clean. And so I’ve been going around speaking on behalf of trying to get men to get checked because, you know, you know, I wanna talk about that stuff, mom. Mhmm. What do you mean

Molly Ruland:

talking about gonna

Spencer Haywood:

get a check?

Molly Ruland:

I love that the Lakers all brought you to Hawaii for 8 days. You know, I think that’s, you know, we, we, we brush by that, but I just think that’s important, you know, like, for men to commune together and love on each other like that and relate and be vulnerable with each other, and I think that is That’s a nice story to hear, you know, that all these men

Spencer Haywood:

a nice story, but it was also a redemption story where we would just, You know, because I left on this strange circumstance with 1 game to go, and so It was kinda fun those guys beating me up a little bit because damn, wood. We’d had 7 in a row. Right. You had Couldn’t keep your hand out of the cocaine barrel. If you can’t do this to me. Look. I’m just here. No.

Spencer Haywood:

No. Let me tell you. It’s like, you know, ragging on each other, so we hadn’t done that in, What? 40 some years? Yeah. It was beautiful.

Molly Ruland:

It’s so important. Well, I really think that you are, I think that you are leading a movement, Spencer. I think that everybody you come in contact with is impacted by your positivity and your perspective and your purpose. I really do believe that, and I’m so thrilled. You know? Like, you have assistants working for you, making sure you are right, you know, all these things. I mean, it’s really, It’s just really beautiful to see you getting all the flowers that you deserve, and I can’t wait to watch the next couple years. I hope he gets it.

Spencer Haywood:

You and Matt were there on a beginning stage of Some other stuff. So

Molly Ruland:

Yeah. Well

Spencer Haywood:

Let me tell you a bit about the movie and about the people who are behind this great project. We got Vassal Benford. Vasal is like, he’s a record mogul person from Sony Music, and We have Terrell Harris, who is Tobias Harris’ father.

Molly Ruland:

Mhmm.

Spencer Haywood:

Okay. He is one of my agents, And Mark Canton, who does the whole power series on stars Mhmm. Power 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. And he was an executive with Warner Brothers, and he’s a big big player. So those are my team, and that’s what’s going on. It’s pretty cool stuff.

Molly Ruland:

Well, Whenever you’re ready, we’ll get that podcast started again because

Spencer Haywood:

Yeah.

Molly Ruland:

It’s our favorite piece of content to produce just because the conversation’s on.

Spencer Haywood:

Here again today. This is what I felt. I’m just feeling it. I was like, wow. The old days.

Molly Ruland:

Yeah. I mean, it’s, You know, we met through LaMotte.

Matt Billman:

Miss them. Just missing LaMotte. Yeah.

Spencer Haywood:

LaMotte. We didn’t talk about it, what do you think? Who’s gonna win this stuff? Who’s gonna win it all? He is a great player. In front of me. So maybe we gotta do another one, but, you know, it’s a big It’s a lot of basketball. Now I’m into it. Yeah.

Matt Billman:

I just started up about a month ago. Yeah.

Spencer Haywood:

Yeah. Yeah.

Matt Billman:

If that, a couple weeks in.

Molly Ruland:

Yeah. I mean, I’m not, you know, I’m not a huge sportsperson, but I find your sports commentary incredibly interesting because it’s so rich with history and story, that it’s just, it makes it really interesting, you know, to be a part of that and to listen. But, yeah, Yeah. Whenever you’re ready. You know, we love hanging out with you, Spencer. We love working with you. It’s it’s always a joy and an honor to spend time with you, and, I really do feel, lucky and grateful that I met you and got to work with you a little bit, and I know you, because your story, like I said, a week or two ago, I I stopped dead in my Trax and thought he was a slave in the sixties. That’s like, you know, my brain broke a little bit.

Molly Ruland:

You know? It’s just to to really Stand the depths of systemic racism and everything that’s happened, and for you to just come out knocking down these barriers with a smile on your face no matter how hard it’s Gautam. I I think we can all be a little bit more like Spencer Haywood, and I think our lives would be dramatically improved by doing so. So, You know? All of the love and respect to you, Spencey.

Spencer Haywood:

All coming out of the cotton field.

Molly Ruland:

Hey.

Spencer Haywood:

If I could survive the cotton field, everything else is gravy.

Molly Ruland:

Perspective is everything. So, Spencer, when is the movie coming Now, like, when when

Spencer Haywood:

Well, you know, we were on strike for the screening interviews, and Right. We’re just not broke on the The screenwriters, we just are now interviewing this week for the writers, and now we also are looking at The actor that’s gonna star in the lead and the guy that we had first, And then he had to fight on stage with Will Smith. So that was, yeah.

Molly Ruland:

That’s that. So much. Yeah.

Spencer Haywood:

Yeah. So We have to start all over. We’re gonna find the right person. We are looking secondly at Adonis Hodge who played in Black Adam I’m with The Rock. Mhmm. But he’s 6 foot 1, and the other guy that’s pushing for the part is Dwayne Wade. My guy.

Molly Ruland:

Yeah. You’ve been golfing with him.

Spencer Haywood:

So My golf buddy, my hang dog. You know? Yeah.

Molly Ruland:

That’s amazing. So Oh, man, Spencer. Well, that’s well, let me tell you. If you need a middle aged white woman as an extra in that movie, you know, I got you. I could be real good

Spencer Haywood:

in the background. That’s our team. Remember? We were this team. We still are, you know?

Molly Ruland:

Hey. I’m here for you. You know what I mean? I’m here for you. And when you do start filming, you gotta let me know. I’ll come out and Is it you and and and gas you up, man? That would make me so happy to do that. But, Yeah.

Spencer Haywood:

You can play Miss Alexander.

Molly Ruland:

Yeah. I can be real tough or sweet. Just me what to do.

Spencer Haywood:

No. Miss Alexander, she ran the grocery store behind our house where the only place you could get food in Silver City, Mississippi Was there

Molly Ruland:

a certain number? Person that

Spencer Haywood:

You received a phone call when they were looking for my mother . We didn’t have a phone, so we had to go to her store To get the call about getting the birth certificate and talk to the people. So

Molly Ruland:

What was it under John? What?

Spencer Haywood:

John 21 in the Bible because my dad was John, and so she just put it there. The last chapter in John.

Molly Ruland:

Hey. You know what? You never know. Maybe writing your name on those pages sent your destiny in motion. Right? Because you were protected from the very beginning.

Spencer Haywood:

There it is. Perfect.

Molly Ruland:

There it is. Well, Spencer, it doesn’t get much better than that, so we should end it right now.

Spencer Haywood:

And We should end it right there. That was it. Hey. That’s what I expected. I think

Molly Ruland:

I believe that. I do believe that.

Spencer Haywood:

I felt it from you, and I said, thank you. That’s, yeah, that’s real. Okay.

Molly Ruland:

Let’s let Spencer be a reminder to you today if you’re feeling if you’re struggling, if you’re having a hard time, which you absolutely have a right to do, but just remember, perspective is anything. And right when things feel real bad, they can get real good, and you never know. Maybe your journey, your struggle is the beginning of Redemption and opportunity for generations of people. Right? And so it’s all where do you stand in the struggle, like Bob Marley said? You know? So Yeah. Spencer, thank you so much for being here and for being a part of our lives. Me and Matt both love you so much, honestly. You know? And, I’m just so grateful to to know you and to see you shine and just know that we are always rooting you on. We are always clapping for you.

Molly Ruland:

We’ll always chat about you, and we’re just so happy to see everything going in the direction that it should.

Spencer Haywood:

Well, thank you. I got this big public relations company that’s a big snooty company. No. I’m just mad. I know I know the other Matt is on the other line, probably. Yeah. The Lobo line. Lobo line has been doing some incredible work for me.

Spencer Haywood:

They have been

Molly Ruland:

wow. You deserve it, and I’m so glad that they found you and you found them because you deserve every bit of it and more, and they should know if they want anything from Heart Cast Media that we are on team Spencer Haywood, so let’s do let’s do this. Alright, Spencer. Thank you. Thank you all for tuning in to Camp Content. This was a very special episode. I know we talk about content and marketing, but you know what? Sometimes you gotta put all that aside when you get to sit down with a legend who can offer some wisdom, intelligence, kindness, and all of the good things that Spencer always brings. So thank you for tuning in to camp content today.

Molly Ruland:

I hope you share this. I hope you found it valuable, and we’ll see you on the next one. Until then, be good to each other, and, yeah, aim for the stars.

Produced by Heartcast Media